In this episode, they dive deep into the world of coding, meetups, and the evolving landscape of technical interviews. Join them as they explore the fascinating use of OpenAI's technology for coding assistance, the challenges of setting up impactful meetups, and the intricacies of mastering LeetCode problems.

Our experts share invaluable insights—from leveraging AI tools like GPT to generate code effectively, to the essential strategies for problem-solving during high-pressure technical interviews. They also touch on the importance of deliberate practice, group support, and finding the right mindset for tackling coding challenges. Plus, hear personal stories about the benefits of taking breaks, the role of LeetCode in honing coding skills, and the shift in interview styles towards speed and pattern recognition.

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Charles Max Wood [00:00:05]:
Hey, folks. Welcome back to another episode of JavaScript Jabber. This week on our panel, I guess it's just me, Charles Max Wood. We have a 2 special guests. We have Tully. Now you've been on before. You wanna remind people who you are?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:00:20]:
Sure. So I'm a front end engineer. I think the last I might have done 2 episodes. 1 of them was about developer happiness, and the other was about, pickle. Js, which, is a integration test library that I wrote.

Charles Max Wood [00:00:35]:
Awesome. We also have Jeff. Jeff, do you wanna introduce yourself? You I don't know who you've been on before.

Jeff [00:00:41]:
No. I haven't been on. I'm I'm actually on a back end engineering SRE. This will be my first time here. So

Charles Max Wood [00:00:47]:
Okay. Now are you a back end engineer or SRE on, like, node stuff? Or

Jeff [00:00:55]:
not recently.

Steve Edwards [00:00:57]:
Okay.

Jeff [00:00:58]:
You're back against node, but, but, yeah, just more more of it's been, like, Python and Go, working. So

Charles Max Wood [00:01:08]:
Fun stuff. We also had Steve Edwards join us. So, welcome, Steve.

Steve Edwards [00:01:15]:
How you doing? How you doing?

Charles Max Wood [00:01:18]:
Alright. Well, we're gonna we're gonna get rolling. We

Steve Edwards [00:01:21]:
Oh, yeah.

Charles Max Wood [00:01:22]:
Yeah. Okay. Good. Yeah. We're live. Woo

Steve Edwards [00:01:25]:
hoo. Now, MemberX. We're live, baby.

Charles Max Wood [00:01:27]:
That's right. So really quickly, we brought you guys on to talk about the LEET code meetup that you guys do. I guess it's in New York City. And I was looking at the website, and it says that this so so I guess we should probably start with what it is. But I wanna get the story because it looks like you totally you posted a post that kinda got things started.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:01:52]:
Yeah. So somewhere around March, I, got fired from Dropbox, and I started looking for jobs. And unlike all these prior years, I've been a software engineer for about 13 years. Front end engineers never really had to do. We could we just had a little take home exercise or, my code react on it. And I started applying for jobs, and all of a sudden, there's just all these lead code question. So I went on a few interviews just completely bottom. And I started studying for LEAP code at that point, and it was just so arduous, so boring.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:02:43]:
Yeah. I I was making no progress whatsoever. So I went on this, tech forum called blind, which is basically where big tech people hang out. And I posted like, hey. You know, I'm looking for some buddies in New York City. And I had some pretty overwhelming response, over a 100, comments, to that post saying like, hey. You know, I'm interested. And from that, I just started a Discord group to get everybody organized, and we had our 1st meetup, which was probably about 30 people.

Charles Max Wood [00:03:17]:
Cool. So I have to admit, I'm kind of in the same boat that you were talking about. Not necessarily seeing leak code questions come up, but, I've never done anything in it. So what what is leak code?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:03:31]:
Yeah. So, basically, it's algorithm data science questions, something that you would learn in computer science in college. And for the most part, it doesn't really come up in most engineers' lives, on their day to day job. Certainly not a front end engineers. But why do companies ask these kinds of questions? Because they do, and at first, I just didn't really get it. Like, it seemed

Jeff [00:03:59]:
Mhmm.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:04:00]:
You know, lazy and counterintuitive. But then I started to understand why ultimately they receive hundreds of applications for each position, and they need some way to filter those candidates because they all, you know, come from good companies. Now they can say whatever they want on their resume. But, ultimately, what LEAP code does is it gives a somewhat quantitative measure of can you at least use logic to solve a problem. And as I started doing more leek code, I started seeing, like, okay. Okay. I could see how, you know, it links back to general problem solving ability, communication, skills, etcetera.

Jeff [00:04:48]:
I mean, I

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:04:49]:
still don't like it, but, I I could see why it's useful. Yeah.

Steve Edwards [00:04:54]:
I'm with you. I mean, we've I've done where I'm at in my company. I've been in charge of doing some hiring for hiring a number of developers, and we it's sort of a 2 edged sword in as in that as a developer, as an applicant, I hate them. I hate them. They've cost me jobs before. You know? And then, unfortunately, in the case, it was my issue was that it was so different doing it the way you do it during, an application process during interview versus how you would do it in real life. You know? So for instance, you know, if I'm programming Vue or Laravel, some of the other tools, I've got my IDE. I've got a debugger set up.

Steve Edwards [00:05:39]:
I've got, you know, omnich tools that I can use to help me work through a problem, where if I'm doing a test online, in this case, it was like a task pad type of thing where somebody's sitting there watching me and I'm coding. I have no debugger. I've got nothing to help me that I don't normally have. And it's like, how is this applicable? You know? But at the same time, coming in front, coming at it from the other side, we use a different platform. We didn't use Leetcode. My boss had looked at Leetcode, and we had gone with another one where we come up with our own test, and they have a pool of questions that we can assign them. And we would use that, and we have a minimum score, you know, that they had to have nothing really high, but it would filter out a decent amount of people. And then the ones that we've hired did really well on it.

Steve Edwards [00:06:24]:
So there's pros and cons. I guess it just depends on what side of the equation you're on when you're, when you're having to use this. It's I don't think it you can certainly get people who could pass the test and then don't do well. One thing we ran into, this was so funny, was, one of the things that the platform that we used, I think it's TestDome, tells you how long it took them to pass the test. And we looked at 1 guy, and it was, like, you know, 30 seconds. We're like, okay. So we start hunting around, and sure enough, you can find gist on GitHub with the answers to test from this to this particular question from this particular platform. And so it's literally copy and paste.

Steve Edwards [00:07:10]:
Now if I was to do that, I would still type it in manually to take up the appropriate amount of time. It's just copy paste. But this guy decided to, yeah, just copy paste and and got it that way. So, anyway, sorry. My my, 2¢ there on on what you were just talking about.

Charles Max Wood [00:07:27]:
Yeah. Before you respond to what, Steve's talking about, Jeff, what how did you get involved in Office?

Jeff [00:07:34]:
Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I maybe as a back end dev, I I have done the code problems earlier on in my career, but for interviews. But, I do feel like it's shifted a little bit too where, you know, originally, you could kinda see, okay, if you had sort of undergraduate level algorithms and data structures, you kinda just needed to know that stuff, and it was, like, a gate for that. But, because there's more and more applicants and there's more and more of a need to filter, they've just they've just constrained the time that you have, and you have to sort of do slightly more convoluted problems. It's still the same data structures, but more convoluted, less time, more convoluted, less time. And so it's just become this, yeah, this very time constrained performance you have to do where you really have to be fast. And, actually, to your point, like, I yeah. I feel like I you actually have to code a little differently because there really isn't time in in, like, an hour.

Jeff [00:08:31]:
In some cases, you know, 20 minutes, you have to solve some of these. And so, like, you really have to you you can't afford to need to debug your code, really. You have to be able to just have your answer be mostly right the first time you write it, which is so different from the normal process of how it would actually work where you, like, you rewrite it or you write it. You write an initial version. You kinda think through it. Oftentimes, the first version I write of something is is just a it's just like a rough draft, and, like, I'll I'll rewrite it. That's, like, part of the process. But I feel like in some of these interviews, yeah, you you have to approach it differently because there isn't time for you to fit in or rewrite, in the middle of it.

Jeff [00:09:16]:
So it it's just a very different it's a very different approach to just coding in general, I feel like. And I don't know. I guess I kind of take the perspective of, like, well, I'm gonna have to do this. It's like every field has their arbitrary gatekeeping that they do if you're, like, a doctor or you're, there's, like, almost hazing that people have to put up with to, like, enter that photo, and that's that's

Steve Edwards [00:09:42]:
Hazing. Yeah.

Jeff [00:09:43]:
Our own yeah. Our own form of hazing sort of arise as, like, they've just made these problems, like, arbitrarily more difficult because they just need to filter people basically. So

Charles Max Wood [00:09:58]:
Yeah. Yeah. So did Jeff, I'm I'm curious. Did you see the I'm gonna kind of ask it a different way. So did you see Tully's post? Is that how you got involved in the group?

Jeff [00:10:07]:
Yeah. Or so I'm I'm somewhat new to New York. I moved here on January, and, I was kinda looking for I was both sort of looking for starting to, you know, have my eyes up for new work out here and then also just wanted to meet people. So I went on meetup.com, and so totally had kind of put it on all the platforms, and so that was Okay. That was the way I got in is saw it on Meetup and then started attending. And, yeah, met a a bunch of, like, very you know, people who are really willing to grind, I guess, you know, like, willing to just, like, come in and do the just come in every week, do the work, which is, like, I yeah. I agree it's sort of not fun work, but it's like I realized, like, I'm gonna get more and more of these as things as time goes on. So Yeah.

Jeff [00:10:56]:
I gotta get good at it. So yeah. It's been

Charles Max Wood [00:11:00]:
So so yeah. So going back to the original discussion, yeah, I can I don't know? I've I've been given all kinds of sample problems, you know, for interviews, and some of them are helpful and some of them are not. But, yeah, it sounds like the platform is a little bit hard to work with because I've always just been able to do it my own IDE.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:11:23]:
I guess there's, like, a few things that are hard to work with, not just missing an IDE, but the whole code style. Like, yeah, you don't get to use a debugger. You know, you don't get to use a lot of the tools, that you usually have out there. You don't really get the whole TypeScript support in most, of these platforms. So, you know, you don't know, the data structure, without manually having to, analyze what's going on. The time constraint, it's not doing you any favors. It's rated for speed, not for readability, which I think is my main problem, with this kind of style of coding. Usually, as a engineer, I want to make sure that everybody is going to understand my work.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:12:17]:
So I'm gonna use very descriptive, variable names. I'm gonna split it up into different functions, probably different files, but that's just not really a luxury that you get in weak code. People use, like, one letter variable names and, you know, there there's the whole, like, code golf where you try to write everything on one line. Joe. Like, all sorts of different, like, hacks and cheats together, like, a few milliseconds. It it's just solving a very different kind of problem than I'm used to.

Steve Edwards [00:12:50]:
Well, you know, one thing that I've I've noticed before, and you hear this joke, I hear it on, you know, whether it's Syntax FM or any other podcast. Some people will say, you know, Twitch streaming is sort of a popular thing, you know, where coders will get on and livestream, and other people can watch them. And I heard one guy say, yeah, the reason I don't do that is they might see that 90 you know, 75% of the time, I'm googling, how do I do this in PHP, or how do I do this in JavaScript? You know?

Charles Max Wood [00:13:15]:
Just like everybody else.

Steve Edwards [00:13:17]:
You know. You know, I come up I start coming up with, little shortcuts from my, forget my little online tool here in, like, Alfred, you know, that, you know, look up this in PHP real quick or, you know, look at this. I'm not always typing everything. And just because that's how you remember stuff is how you look up stuff. You know? You gotta look for it half the time instead of just being able to do it from memory right away.

Jeff [00:13:41]:
Yeah. I agree. It's I feel like one of the the biggest complaints about it is it's it's becomes less and less about, like, creative problem solving or, like like, diffuse mode thinking where, you know, your your your brain is in more of the diffuse mode where you're you're accessing different parts of your brain. Like, you really have to turn turn your your coding into, like, a fast twitch thinking, like, kind of focus mode where you're not you're not, you're not doing as much creative problem solving as much as just executing an unknown patterns and you have to, like, know the patterns, memorize the patterns, and then just rip them out real fast without making mistakes. And it kinda yeah. It's it's sort of is a difference. I feel like the interviews are are are searching for different qualities in people because of that. It's, like, much more about, I don't know, being like a code soldier, you know, that just sort of executes on the the patterns that are in front of you versus, like, a creative problem solver.

Jeff [00:14:43]:
But yeah. And especially it's, like, I have ADHD too, so it's, like, not that's not the kind of things that I naturally excel at. So I feel like I have to put in more time than a normal person would in the in, like, in those types of interviews. But

Steve Edwards [00:14:58]:
Yeah. What do you you know, what it reminds me of is the discussion about standardized testing in schools where you get to the point where, the standardized test scores are so important for, you know, getting money for schools or whatever that pretty soon teachers are teaching for the test Mhmm. Instead of the content in teaching how to, creatively think, how to problem solve. You know? It's their teaching. Okay. The test is looking for this, so we're gonna teach you everything so that you can pass this test. Okay. Great.

Steve Edwards [00:15:28]:
You get past the test. What has that done for you? Even know how to pass that test, but has it taught you anything really useful outside

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:15:33]:
of that?

Jeff [00:15:34]:
But Yeah.

Charles Max Wood [00:15:35]:
I'm I'm kinda curious. Does your group do some of that where it's more strategies to pass the lead codes as opposed to, you know, specific, I don't know, algorithms or something?

Jeff [00:15:48]:
A little bit. Yeah. I mean, it will like, for specific types of problems, it but it's like strategies to move quickly within an That's what it means. So yeah. So peeking

Charles Max Wood [00:15:58]:
to the test, so to speak, a little bit.

Jeff [00:16:00]:
Right. And so it's like, okay. So, you know, the types of problems where you have, like, a 2 d matrix and you need to do breadth first search on cells in the matrix or something. Then, like, you know, there's, like, little like, a generator. Like, a lot of us have taken to just writing this little generator function that just checks to see if the neighbors are on the edge or not. And then, like, that's the pattern we use every time we do that now. It's just this little and it's just like it's a it is useful to kinda learn those little subcoding patterns to, like, be able to, like, rip those answers out really fast. But, but, yeah, it's, like, little micro strategies to avoid getting tripped up in the implementation during an interview and just being able to, like, bang out bang out, like, code like, basically, I have mentally saved code snippets of things that you can just bang out.

Jeff [00:16:53]:
Honestly, yeah, it would be nice to have those saved in an editor where you can just, like, put the snippet in. But, yeah. I mean, that's

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:17:04]:
I've gotta say, though, you know, as much as I wanna take that moral high ground of, well, this has nothing to do with our jobs, I am starting to get a bit more appreciation. So I actually interviewed, for a few jobs, and I failed on the practical coding skills, which no no excuse there really. And, the reason being the last 2 years, I actually probably coded 30% of the time, and what I coded was, POCs. And the rest of the time, I was basically project management architecture. And I completely forgot, like, how do you code a basic component in React? You know, like, that that is something I should know. And then I started, you know, working on my own, like, little app just for fun. And I realized, like, Like, I really should know these different patterns, but, like, I I don't. And I start, like, going through and it feels very much like code where okay.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:18:08]:
I kind of see, like, these common patterns. Like, when I'm dealing with inputs, this is generally the code that I would use. If I'm trying to, like, pass in filters, how do I pass in filters? How do I pass them back? It's like a pretty common problem, but you kinda have to think through it a little bit the first time and then you know the pattern. So is it exactly the same kind of problems that I'll be solving? No. But believe it or not, I think the strategies sort of started helping me, in the part of coding, which I do value for my job.

Steve Edwards [00:18:42]:
Yeah. Just more proof of the adage. Use it or lose it. Right?

Charles Max Wood [00:18:48]:
Yep. So I'm I'm a little curious then since this was focused on, I guess, mastering lead codes, you could get a job. Did it help you get a job?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:19:00]:
Not yet. I actually took a break from, lead code and job searching for about, I wanna say, 2 months probably.

Charles Max Wood [00:19:07]:
Uh-huh.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:19:08]:
Something like that. And, yeah, a lot of it I realized I have some savings, and right now, it's just not a great market, for engineers.

Charles Max Wood [00:19:20]:
That's true.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:19:21]:
My biggest problem at work, has always been, you know, lack of a personal life, lack of community. Like, all my self worth was pretty much invested in my job, and that caused a whole bunch of different problems. So I basically decided to take a few months to, like, build up, you know, some community, build up some friends, some hobbies. And now I'm, like, sort of passively searching. Like, I've got a interview with Uber, Airbnb, and Stripe coming up.

Steve Edwards [00:19:55]:
You like the small companies, you know, the mom and pop shops?

Charles Max Wood [00:19:58]:
Yeah.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:20:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. But, yeah, like, I I think at this point, you know, I'm more in passive search mode because I rather, you know, have that really stable personal base for when I go back to work. And, you know, I I think a lot of that blind culture is, like, you have to have a job now. You have to maximize your TC, and, that's not necessarily, the only path.

Charles Max Wood [00:20:27]:
Your TC?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:20:28]:
Oh, t so blind. How would you describe blind, Jeff?

Jeff [00:20:36]:
Yep. I in my opinion, blind's kind of a toxic environment, but DC just means total compensation. And it's,

Steve Edwards [00:20:43]:
yeah,

Jeff [00:20:43]:
it's very, like, a lot of the people on blind are all big tech workers. I mean, that's sort of the intention of it is it's like the and you get the the inside scoop on some of these companies, I guess, as people anonymously join blind and then talk about their the company. But it sort of become this, yeah, this culture of, like, everyone's obsessed with the FAANG income, and, basically, it's yeah. So, I don't know if I always feel like blind is the healthiest place to go on. Because it's a little bit of, like, a I mean, I'm sure there's, like I don't you never really know how many people are lying about what what their TC is or what they're doing, but, yeah, it's a pretty, like, just compensation obsessed, getting the highest paying job no matter what kind of thing. But, and then also just, like, very negative about the industry in general. So it's a very, like, kind of nihilistic kind of culture. Nola.

Jeff [00:21:46]:
Nola's just nodding. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Like, everything sucks. Money is the only thing that matters, but, I don't know. I mean, like, it still is useful in some ways to, like, just get, yeah, get some of that insider information a little bit if you're willing to wade through, kind of the the toxicity that is common with all of social media at this point.

Jeff [00:22:07]:
But

Charles Max Wood [00:22:08]:
Right.

Jeff [00:22:10]:
But yeah. Yeah. So and, like, Yeah. I think, like, that is sort of there is a a little bit of an aspect of that with, like, lead code is associated most with, like, the FAANG or, like, the big company type interviews. And so there is always gonna be, like, a a portion of the population of people who are interested in grinding week code that are a little bit more, just the the sort of TC TC monsters or whatever. But, I don't know. I feel like, yeah, emotionally, it's hard to, like, sustain that attitude about life. So, like, I feel like for me and I I think for as well, it's like it's like you eventually want it to become, like, a a game or that you start to get good.

Jeff [00:22:53]:
Like, it's it's like a workout or something. You you start to, like, value the the improvement or the progress that you're making, and, like, it's sort of a game that you're getting better at, like like a crosswords or something. Right? Like, you're in Wordle. And, I don't know. I'd I'd try to cultivate that attitude about it a little bit because it is a grind. But I like, I think like Toby said, I'm starting to sort of enjoy the problems a little bit, like, spend a little bit of time each day or sit down with a with a fresh cup of coffee in the morning and just, like, work on one of the problems. And, yeah, you try and be forgiving of yourself if you aren't getting that one right then. And, yeah, just try to be organized.

Jeff [00:23:34]:
If you realize you're struggling with something, like, write down what it is so you can kinda start to identify patterns and, like, what what you're good at, what you're not good at. I got a big fan of deliberate practice that that whole concept. You just, like, break down all the components of your implementation and your, like, algorithm, your problem solving, like, steps. And then just start to identify, like, where you're strong, where you're weak, and then drill on the things who are weak. And I don't know. Like, in a way, it's like I can recognize it's all, it's all sort of BS. But in another way, I'm sort of enjoying the progress that I'm making. So it's not like, I'm not totally nihilistic about it, I guess.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:24:24]:
Yeah. Actually, funny

AJ O'Neil [00:24:25]:
What what is TC monster? I missed that.

Jeff [00:24:28]:
Like, just somebody who it's like just being obsessed with compensation and there and nothing else.

Steve Edwards [00:24:34]:
TC is total compensation, AJ. Yeah.

Jeff [00:24:37]:
Because, yeah, once you get to, like, certain in thing, like, they compensate more and more in terms of, stock. So, like, they always talk in terms of ATC versus just salary. Because, you know, like, as you as you go to get to Fang, it's it'll be, like, more than half of your comp will start to come from from, like, stock and stuff. So

AJ O'Neil [00:24:59]:
Oh, interesting.

Jeff [00:25:00]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Steve Edwards [00:25:02]:
What were

Charles Max Wood [00:25:02]:
you gonna say, Tully?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:25:05]:
Yeah. So interesting thing happened. I took a break from leak code for about 2 months. And after that, I went back to leak code problem, and it became so much easier. And I noticed that I didn't really have that whole stressful mindset when approaching the problem. It was more like, alright. If I solve it, great. If I don't solve it, whatever.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:25:28]:
And, like, once all those, like, voices just started moving away, it really is about problem solving. You just kind of lay out a plan and, you follow that plan versus I think that blind does have that sort of hectic culture of, like, I've gotta solve these problems. It has to happen right now. If I'm unemployed for one more month, it's going to be terrible. So I I think, you know, even for people in big tech on blind, it would be really useful to step away from that kind of culture for a bit and, then come back.

Charles Max Wood [00:26:10]:
I I kinda have two directions I wanna go. I guess, since we're still talking about LeetCode, let's do this one first. And it is effectively like, what strategies are there? Like, it so let's say somebody's listening to this and they're going, okay. You've talked about this LeetCode meetup and how these guys got together, but how how do I solve the Leet Codes? Right? How do I get better at them?

Jeff [00:26:36]:
Speak a little bit to it, I got. I mean, I think, like, one thing that's important is, like, even if you're familiar with algorithms or data and data structures, maybe you have, like, like, a CS degree or something, that doesn't mean you're familiar with, like, all the intricacies of the different ways to implement that algorithm. So, like, binary search, for instance, there's like I think a lot of people are comfortable with binary search. Maybe even to the point of being like, oh, this is really basic. Like, I shouldn't have to drill on this. Mhmm. But it's different to implement binary search. For instance, if you're looking for a specific element in an array versus you're looking for a a boundary point between, like, where you would insert an element that doesn't yet exist in an array.

Jeff [00:27:15]:
And there's, like, slightly different

Charles Max Wood [00:27:17]:
Oh, interesting. Okay.

Jeff [00:27:18]:
Ways to do that. And, like, depending on some of the more complicated lead code problems may involve something where you're you're looking for a position in a sorted array that isn't an element, but you need to, like, find that position and then do something. Or another one is where you need to search for an element. And they both have slightly different ways that you implement the the while loop. And, like, they both start with, like, a left pointer and a right pointer. And one of them may be, like, less than or equal to where you you wait until they're basically overlapping, and the other one, it will be less than or something there. So there's slightly different implementations depending on which flavor of binary search you're trying to do. And I think, like, the process of trying to get good at it is sort of identifying, like, oh, okay.

Jeff [00:28:07]:
So this is probably gonna be this type of algorithm, but then there's, like, 4 different ways to implement it, and I should drill on all of those. So that way, like, you're not getting tripped up in that part of the implementation as you're trying to bang out the algorithm. That maybe, like, that and then a few other steps or something. Or, like, another example is, like, I was actually just sort of realizing I needed to work on this the other day. It was like, I've done a lot of breadth first search or depth first search problems Mhmm. But not a lot of, like, multi source breadth first search or depth first search where you, like you don't just start from one point and then search outwards, but you put, like, several points in there at once, and then you look at, like, layers, and then that could, like so just as an example, if you well, I I don't know if we wanna dive into a whole problem, I guess. But, like, there's def there's different, like, there's little implementation flavorings of every algorithm. And just, like, being patient with yourself, like, trying some problems, and then you're inevitably not gonna get all of them, but, like, try and rack your brain to get something working.

Jeff [00:29:15]:
And then after a while, once you realize you're not making any progress, like, check the editorial. I really recommend paying for LeetCode Pro so you can see their editorials because they do a really good job of breaking down how to solve the problem. And then and then kind of identify, like, oh, okay. So, like, I was able to identify that, yeah, breadth first search was the right algorithm here, but I got tripped up in this part of the implementation. And then just try to, like I I keep a lot of notes off to the side of, like, this type of problem, like, so I I've started, like, taking notes a bunch about, like, multi source BFS, and I put that off to the side. I'm, like, put some of the problems that were related in the related section and then have those stored off to the side so I can drill them. And it's a lot of, like yeah. I just, like, like, understanding the the little nuances and then just sticking with it.

Jeff [00:30:14]:
And I honestly think that's, like, one of the best benefits of the group is that, like, it's a grind, and it's, like, it's better to, like, suffer with other people, I guess.

Steve Edwards [00:30:24]:
Misery list company?

Jeff [00:30:26]:
Right. It's like, it becomes, like, a little bit of a social outlet. It's not so isolating. And, like, we kind of are going through it together and teaching each other and that kind of thing. So it becomes a lot less, like, this, like, despair of all this work that you have to do and how hard it is and all of that, and more about, like, us helping each other. So

Steve Edwards [00:30:50]:
Yeah. At risk at risk, it sounding like the stereotype that everybody says about CrossFitters. That's part of the reason I love CrossFit is that you're sharing the misery with other people, and it makes a heck of a lot better than when you're just in there, you know, working out by yourself in a home gym or doing your own workout at a standard gym. It just makes it so much more enjoyable, and, who knows? You're gonna learn from other people as well.

Jeff [00:31:16]:
Yeah. Totally.

Charles Max Wood [00:31:17]:
You see them walking in like they're busted the same way you're busted?

Steve Edwards [00:31:21]:
Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, there's so many good memes on Instagram about, like, that that crossfit is so funny.

Charles Max Wood [00:31:29]:
So I got another question, and that is more along the lines of the meetup. So it's it's so funny because COVID totally screwed up meetups. And, I mean, there used to be a whole bunch of tech meetups here in Utah. I think there are a couple that have kind of come back. It's and by come back, I mean, they're running. I don't know how many people are going.

AJ O'Neil [00:31:55]:
Yeah. It's it's, like, 1 third the attendance at most of them, if that

Charles Max Wood [00:31:59]:
Right. So my question is so let's say that I want to start a meetup, not necessarily even a lead code meetup, but let's say that I'm thinking, okay. You know, it'd be really great. There's all this new stuff coming down with AI or with, you know, maybe it is leak code or maybe it's just, hey. Look. You know, I wanna be better at JavaScript or better at React or, you know, you name it. What what do you recommend for people who wanna get something like that started?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:32:28]:
I think a lot of it is there has to be a real need. The reason why, LeakCode worked was it kinda needed to get a job. Mhmm. We were targeting people who really wanted jobs.

Jeff [00:32:43]:
So

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:32:43]:
I think if you find that, then it's relatively straightforward. But, yeah, like, I think the second one, I also started another, kind of community. And a a lot of that has to do with identity. Like, how do you identify yourself? Yes. If you can link to identity, that does a lot.

Charles Max Wood [00:33:10]:
Right. Now is that is that partially just, hey, I do React or, hey, I do Vue or I wanna do better JavaScript or is there more identity than that that you wanna dive into?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:33:25]:
Well, for the other community I sort of started, it's it has absolutely nothing to do with computers. But, it well, let's say part of it is something about, like, how do I communicate with the world? How am I honest with myself? So if you start seeing yourself as a certain type of person, when you say I am blank, then it's much easier to form, community of people around you, that are dedicated to that cause. And I think that does happen in LEAP code because people identify as, like, I am someone who works in big tech. I am someone who

Jeff [00:34:07]:
gets

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:34:08]:
the lead code. So it works. Ultimately, the more close you are to somebody's identity, the better.

Steve Edwards [00:34:17]:
Gotcha. You know, I I haven't delved into leak code just yet. Although, side note, I was just talking to a buddy of mine that's a at Amazon, and he was telling me about, their process and leak code. And he was like, yeah. You probably wanna go study up and get, like, the premium membership and do everything you can for 3 or 4 weeks before you even try. How does it work from a language standpoint? Do you get to choose the languages that you're using, to answer these questions? Is it, like, you know, like, if you primarily view or, you know, one of the JavaScript frameworks, is it, like, vanilla JavaScript? Do you get your stuff in Vue? Or if you're a back end guy like PHP or Java or Node or Ruby, do you get to use the language of your choice for answering questions, or

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:35:00]:
how does that work?

Jeff [00:35:02]:
You do. I I would say, like, we could kinda started out as, like, mostly Java and Python, but since then, they've really put a lot of effort into expanding. So most of the editorials now are in a bunch of different languages. I think they they have, c plus plus and Java and Python, and they usually have, JavaScript. The editor, you can do a lot of different languages like TypeScript if you wanna do that. You can do JavaScript. They're actually maybe I I'll hop over and fire it up really quick and just confirm. But, yeah, there's a bunch of different languages that they support, and, like, most of the editorials have a a bunch of languages as well.

Jeff [00:35:42]:
That's every once in a while, you may see a problem that, like, in in the actual examples of of how it's solved in the editorials, like, it'll only be 2 languages or something. But, we've had a number of people that have attended the group that are coming from coding boot camps. That's actually the the two places where we meet up is at 1 of 2 different coding boot camps. And a lot of those folks have JavaScript as their main language. So, like, we are I think JavaScript works just fine. I think, like, Python is, like, is is what I recommend if people are sort of agnostic to language just because it gives you again, in terms of speed, Python has a lot of these little helper functions that just, like, you take a list and then you call sorted on it, and now it's sorted. Or, like, you call max on it and you get the maximum elements. And it's just like you just, like, throw that function on there and then just keep going, and it just there's a lot less stuff that you have to implement yourself.

Jeff [00:36:44]:
But, but, yes, you can do any language for the most part. And, actually, I have the editor open. Okay. So they have c plus plus, Java, Python, Python 3. So Python 2, Python 3. C, c sharp, JavaScript, TypeScript, PHP, Swift, Kotlin, Dart, Go, Ruby, Scala, Rust, Racket, Erlang, and Elixir.

Steve Edwards [00:37:06]:
Is that all?

Jeff [00:37:07]:
Okay. That's I really that's the what the editor supports. But, yeah, like so yeah. And I think, like, I think if if you're thinking JavaScript, I think, that has is gonna have, like, pretty it's I would say it's like a first class citizen at this point of weed code. So, like, a lot of the other editorials have JavaScript implementations. So and it looks like TypeScript as well. So,

AJ O'Neil [00:37:34]:
but why is it called an editorial writer? Just gonna ask for the

Jeff [00:37:37]:
same thing.

AJ O'Neil [00:37:37]:
I guess editorial sounds like newspaper.

Steve Edwards [00:37:39]:
That's exactly what they're gonna say.

Jeff [00:37:41]:
I guess, like, they have a like, there's there's, like, a solution section, but that that, I think, was what they first implemented, and that's just, like, community solutions. And then the editorial is, like, a professionally done breakdown that, like, really describes the whole algorithm with, like, with diagrams and, you know, even, like, maybe a little bit of video or something. So, like, the the solutions, I think I'm I'm guessing it's like a legacy thing. It's like they called the the solutions was the name they gave the community solutions, I guess.

AJ O'Neil [00:38:13]:
So maybe maybe they were looking at the community stuff and, like, pulling out and saying, okay. From all of what people are saying, as an editor of this content, this is these are the important pieces for people who are commonly missed concepts or whatever.

Jeff [00:38:28]:
That would make sense. Yeah. I guess, I I don't know for sure that that was their thought process, but that that would make sense.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:38:35]:
I personally don't find the editorials that useful. Whenever I wanna understand something, I go to YouTube, I type the problem, and there's much, much better visual explanations.

Steve Edwards [00:38:46]:
Oh, so people are doing videos on specific leak code questions and how to answer them and solve them? Okay.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:38:53]:
Also, there's a guy called Neat Code, who I I think is one of the top YouTubers, but he has a course, essentially explaining all these, concepts in visual ways. And they all do a much better job than the editorials in my opinion.

Jeff [00:39:10]:
Yeah. I I agree. And also things like new code is is if you're either new to algorithms or and data structures or you're just kinda rusty, start with mecode. That's another, like, paid thing, though. But it's like it's like a $100 for a year, and then you go through their, like, his intro to algorithms, and it it, like, gives a bunch of tutorials and then links to specifically code problems that are for those topics. And I think that, is one of the better sort of onramps into sort of we code. And that's spelled neet, code dot I o. I guess we're we're basically advertising for that at this point.

Jeff [00:39:52]:
But, but, yeah, I mean, I do think, like, we've had a couple of people that come into the to the sessions that are, you know, pretty new, and we always recommend, like, or I always recommend new code as, like, hey. This is how this is how you kinda on ramp. So

Steve Edwards [00:40:16]:
So, Tully, you had mentioned, a little earlier about how you did this for a while, and then you went away, and then you came back. It's like, oh, now I can understand it, which is so true. I mean, how many I can't count the number of times I've solved a problem in my head in the shower, you know, because I'm sitting there thinking about it or having a nightmare. Oh, yeah. That's how I should do it.

Charles Max Wood [00:40:37]:
Yeah. I get really stuck. I go for a walk the same night.

Steve Edwards [00:40:40]:
Exactly. My question is, you know, we were talking earlier about, how this can sort of be like studying for the test instead of studying the material. I'm curious to see that after having studied for LeetCode and, gone through this and studying these problems, what areas you felt it improved for you, if any? I mean, does it help you with just general problem solving, with maybe some, you know, programming type problem solving? What is it that, if anything, that you feel you can do better having gone through and studied for LeetCode?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:41:23]:
Well, when I first started, I had so much emotional attachment, for lack of a better word, to leave code. You know, on one hand, it was, I really hate doing this. This is so boring. This is so useless. I don't want to do this. Like, I can't do this. Like, I'm not the type of person who, who can do this. I'm a JavaScript engineer.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:41:46]:
I'm not like a algorithms person. Just a whole laundry list of why I don't want to and can't do, Leakcode. After starting the meetup, it eased up a little bit. You know, I started improving and seeing, like, alright. So if I practice this, you know, I could get better. You know, I I actually passed some first rounds of interviews, which I did not think, I would pass. Like, in meta, I passed, like, 2 out of 3 algorithm interviews, which I was very surprised at. And then, like, taking that big break, it probably did I wouldn't say the most good, but it did a huge, chunk of, good for me because, it removed a lot of that I have to solve this or my life is sorry.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:42:40]:
Complete that.

Steve Edwards [00:42:41]:
You're okay with any friendly podcast.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:42:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. So, basically, that's, what it did, for me. And also, just where I traveled, I went to Europe, for a little while, and a lot of people who I met there were, nomads. So all they did was essentially travel, the world and they, you know, went to different acroyoga, conventions. And a lot of people there, they, earned, like, maybe 10, $15,000 a year, and they were just having this much more fulfilling lifestyle. And then you have people on blind, you know, making 500, 700 k a year, and they're suicidal. They don't have relationships.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:43:30]:
So having that huge juxtaposition of these 2 different lifestyles, it really helped me let go of a lot of the emotional baggage around, Leapgood. And then it's like, this is just like any other problem. Like, it's not special. Like, it removed that special factor from it.

Steve Edwards [00:43:51]:
So it sounded like it wasn't emotional attachment you had. It was more like emotional repulsion.

Jeff [00:43:55]:
Yeah.

Steve Edwards [00:43:56]:
Yeah. I really don't wanna do this.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:44:00]:
Exactly.

Steve Edwards [00:44:02]:
So how does that you know, going back to your meetups. So what do you do at the meetups? I mean, is it is it, like do you have, like, a shared screen where somebody can share their screen and everybody can look

Jeff [00:44:16]:
at a problem and

Steve Edwards [00:44:16]:
sort of work through how to do it? Do you just pair up and look at laptops? Is it is there any sort of structure like, okay. How are you doing? We're gonna talk about this and this where you go through problems as a group. Does it vary? What, I'm just curious to see how that works.

Jeff [00:44:32]:
It does vary. I would say it varies a little bit based on how many people show up to a specific one. So, like, we had one too, like, 2 weeks ago on Thursday at general assembly, and that one was very large. So there's, like, 60 people there. So we really had to break it up into smaller groups. And in that case, we broke it up by just, like, level in the code, like, easy, medium, hard. And then there was, like, a system design group in that case. I think we may actually start to incorporate like, for the really large groups, start to incorporate, like, a pretty easy group as well because there's a few people who are just onboarding on the lead code, and we wanna include those people.

Jeff [00:45:13]:
I think in the and when when there's smaller groups like some of our Saturday sessions, we, I guess, the pattern that we've fallen into that, we sort of like is that we do we pick a solution type. It's like sliding window where you, like, slide a window across an array to compute something And sort of we'll make a theme for the whole session around find like, identifying problems of that solution type and then solving a number of them to sort of get familiar with that type of solution. And, that I think helps a lot with just sort of, like, taking one one time of solution and kind of embedding it in your mind so it becomes like a tool, like, an a tool in your toolkit that you can pull out if you see another type of problem, that that uses that. And that's a and I think if you're starting to get into leetcode too, like, I think the thing that can make it a lot less intimidating is is realizing that there's only, like, like, there's, like, only, like, 25 total types of solutions, really, for all the code problems more or less. And they're all, like, they're, like, every lead code problem is, like, a different variation on a solution type or maybe combines 2 of them together or something. But there's only, like, 25 patterns, and then you just have to kinda, like, drill them all. And there's, like, different flavors of a given pattern. Like, binary search is a pattern, but there's different flavors of it.

Jeff [00:46:43]:
But,

AJ O'Neil [00:46:45]:
this actually brings, up something that I've been thinking about a lot lately, especially with this explosion of AI. It seems like we're wasting 1,000,000,000 of dollars on these, you know, general problem solving, word games when really because I was thinking I I was thinking it'd be more in the order of 10,000. Like, maybe less than that. But somewhere in the order of 10,000 things you do as a programmer. Like, think of every 4 loop you've ever written. Think of every set of if statements you've ever done. You know? Think of every, algorithm that you'd ever had to ever have had to use, which is probably less than 25, you know, outside of leak code. Like, think of all those things.

AJ O'Neil [00:47:29]:
If you just had some sort of assistant that could help identify, like, this is the pattern here. Let me template this out. How much more valuable would that be than having some generic thing that's just trying to, like, guess and figure stuff out from, you know, context clues and statistical analysis? And how much less expensive it would be in processing power?

Jeff [00:47:52]:
Yeah. Are you talking about, like, designing an AI, like, as a design for coding assistance? Or, Yeah.

AJ O'Neil [00:48:01]:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It because because the whole idea of of, most of this stuff seems to be based on OpenAI's work, whether it's OpenAI or not. Like, the LLM technology that they made public before they went back to being a private company or not went back, but became a private company. You know, like like, that that vein of technology is so good for what it was designed for, like creating ads. Right? Like, you wanna you wanna put lots of ads on web pages with lots of keywords without, you know, that like, that's that is the business model that that OpenAI had for, like, the last 10 years until, you know, 2 years ago, they started doing code and stuff. But, yeah.

AJ O'Neil [00:48:45]:
So if in it's like they took a really, really general, like, word driven approach and then applied it to programming, and it does amazingly well. Like, I I actually am now a paid subscriber for GPT 4 o. Because with 4 o, it's good enough that it's, like, gone from solving the problems I ask it, like, you know, a quarter of the time to 75% of the time. And some of that is I only ask it questions in a certain way now, but 4 o is definitely better than 3, you know, when when this thing started. But I just think so often, if it could just template out, like, what are the things that you do as a programmer? Because there's not that many things that you really do. It's you do like you're saying, you take there's I think it's more than 25 different patterns, but, you know, it's a countable number of patterns that you use as a programmer. What if you just created an AI that did those things and then templated them them out rather than what, you know, the the statistical analysis bit. That that's kind of the the the thought experiment.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:49:53]:
I think chat gbt already can do a lot of that. I mean, I use chat gbt for all my coding now. Yeah. Basically, I describe the problem that I'm trying to solve, and it spits out a good, like, 100, 150 lines of code. Anything past that, that's where it starts having problems. It can't understand the context of my whole app. But if I say, like, this is something very specific that I want this module to do, it does an incredible job. And there are many, like, little things that it's great at as well, like, you know, create a type map, for, what I'm trying to do.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:50:31]:
Like, that's just something that takes a long time to do by hand. But

AJ O'Neil [00:50:36]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:50:37]:
It it it'll get it, like, 99% of the time.

AJ O'Neil [00:50:40]:
I definitely don't see 99%, but it's with 4 o, I think that it's above 50%.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [00:50:46]:
For just, like, a bunch of JSON. Like, say, I drop in a bunch of JSON, and it has, like, some text in it. I I've basically never had it guess incorrectly. And I might have to change it around, like, maybe, like, for this property instead of a string, it's this array of strings, but that's really the only time that it gets it wrong. And you can't expect it to get it right there.

Charles Max Wood [00:51:08]:
I was asking about how the meetup runs, and I think somebody mentioned that you guys do it at general assembly in New York. So how do you find the space for your meetup? Somebody work there? Or

Jeff [00:51:22]:
The yeah. I mean, so that was actually Ken's not here, but Ken and Steven are putting a lot of work into just reaching out to different, coding boot camps, and those have been the most successful. So there's one called Fractal. They're in, in, like, Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and then there's general assembly, which is more in Midtown, Manhattan. And, the general assembly is more new. Fractal, we meet on Saturdays, and general assembly is, like, every other Thursday now or it's going to be. But, yeah, I mean, there there have been a a number of different attempts to reach out. I think in the early stages, Tolli was actually covering the cost of, like, trying to pay for these paid venues, and that wasn't super sustainable because we just have fluctuating numbers of people attending, and, like, it was also optional, to pay for tickets.

Jeff [00:52:11]:
So at that time, a lot of people opted not to, and it was just wasn't really sustainable to do the paid venues. So but, yeah, we found that those the coding boot camps are definitely happy to have us there because it's like an interview prep group, which is sort of directly related to the value they're trying to provide their students. So that's gone, that's gone well so far. And we basically just get to use their space. For Fractal, we just get to kinda show up on Saturdays and use their space. And then for GA, they have to, like, organize an event around it, to that sort of their policy. But, yeah, we're we're still kind of exploring a bit. I think Fractal is, like, further out.

Jeff [00:52:56]:
It's a less central location, so not as many people can attend that one. So, yeah, we're always we'll we'll, yeah, looking for a a space that's gonna be kinda central for people that is hopefully not expensive. So

Steve Edwards [00:53:12]:
so Speaking of space, do you ever use MySpace? I'm kidding.

Jeff [00:53:16]:
No. I

Steve Edwards [00:53:17]:
just saw an article about, MySpace celebrating its 21st anniversary, so I brought that to mind. I'll give myself a rim shot for that.

AJ O'Neil [00:53:24]:
Wait. Is my I'm gonna go to the website. I didn't I didn't know they were still around.

Steve Edwards [00:53:30]:
Yeah. Here's an article. I'll I'll mention it in pics that I something I just saw in Hacker News. So, anyway Cool.

Charles Max Wood [00:53:38]:
Is there anything else

Jeff [00:53:39]:
we wanna

AJ O'Neil [00:53:40]:
shoot, dog. It does exist.

Charles Max Wood [00:53:42]:
Anything else we wanna go into with, the meetup or leak code before we do fix? Okay. Well, let's do the fix then. We usually have our guests go less, but, Jeff, if you've gotta jump off soon, are are you enjoying any TV shows, books, movies, technology, anything else?

Jeff [00:54:05]:
I don't know. This is this is not cyber exciting.

Charles Max Wood [00:54:08]:
Anything.

Jeff [00:54:08]:
Started playing Cyberpunk again, but but that's a that's an older game. I guess yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Just I I have nothing that's super exciting. It's like I've just played Cyberpunk and Baldur's Gate 3, and then I do bar trivia when I'm not, not working and looking for work. It's hard to come up with these on the spot. We come back to me, and I'll I'll maybe have something.

Charles Max Wood [00:54:37]:
Alright. Hopefully, you don't get your call between now and then. AJ, do you wanna start us off with picks then?

AJ O'Neil [00:54:43]:
Yes. I do, Chuck. So, one thing that I I totally forgot last time. So my wife and I took a trip to, to Colorado to see the Royal Gorge Bridge. And on the way, we finally started listening to some of the Brandon Sanderson secret project books

Jeff [00:55:06]:
Mhmm.

AJ O'Neil [00:55:07]:
That, we've had now for, I guess, about 2 years, but have not, like, listened taken the opportunity to enjoy listening to them. So on the trip, we did. And we listened to Yumi and the nightmare painter and sunlit man. And she, I think, had already listened to Tress. And I was in the last few chapters of the frugal wizard's guide to medieval England. And Yumi and the Nightmare Painter is just an amazing story. I think that it is one of Brandon Sanderson's best works. It very much has, an anime feel to it.

AJ O'Neil [00:55:49]:
He says that it was inspired by Final Fantasy 10 and, a manga and and then just, you know, some of his own thoughts while sitting on the bus or in the park or something. But it is, it's a world in which there are nightmare painters, and nightmare painters go out at at night. And they're basically like cops, like not like cops. They're like like citizen what what did what did you call that back in the nineties with the signs up in the neigh neighborhood watch? They're like neighborhood watch, like, paid neighborhood watch, except that they are watching out for nightmares, which are creatures that, come out at at at night and become manifest from people's dreams. So the very, very much in that vein of, you know, like spirited away or something that seems like a a Studio Ghibli type of story. And, you know, you that that in of itself may not appeal to you. But I like, yeah. I I'd almost rather just give someone the book and say, here.

AJ O'Neil [00:56:55]:
Read this or listen to this than try to describe it. But but I'll try to describe it anyway. So the there's the nightmare painters. And then there is Yumi, who I I I don't think that she's called a princess, but essentially, she's a, no, she's not a princess. She's a type of royalty. And and then it it kind of goes into a freaky Friday scenario. So, yes, it's like it's like Spirited Away meets Freaky Friday. That is what Yumi and the Nightmare Painter is.

AJ O'Neil [00:57:28]:
But there's also I I don't know. I mean, calling it that just makes it sound so not as great as it is. Because Freaky Friday is an okay movie, and Spirited Away is a very weird cartoon. But Yumi and the Nightmare Painter is just awesome. I loved it. I think it was around 12 hours long, and we listened to it on 1.5 in one setting on on our trip out to the hotel. And then, 2 other quick picks, The Chosen, I think that season 4 is has been phenomenal. I think it's really interesting as, as a a fairly well, it's a nondenominational portraying of the of Jesus' disciples.

AJ O'Neil [00:58:18]:
So there's a little bit of Catholicism in there. There's a little bit of Judaism in there. There's a little bit of evangelists, Christianity in there. There's a bit of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints in there. There's, like, there's lots of different, philosophies represented. Not, I I think, because the intent was to represent the different philosophies or different religions, but more because I I think this person just has a really good reading of the Bible. By good reading, I mean, is able to to see past the 5000 years of translations and, idioms and, you know, like, to to to really pull out what I think was was meant. And I imagine it must have made a lot of pastors and seminaries very angry to see season 4.

AJ O'Neil [00:59:12]:
I've I've I've heard of of last but it's like but that's the whole thing. It's it's about the Pharisees and the Sadducees and and Jesus being a like a revolutionary. And so I just yeah. Season 4 was great. I can't wait for season 5. They they just finished filming it. But if you don't need to be a religious person to enjoy The Chosen, it is such a well produced show. It is it is family friendly with the caveat that there are scenes with violence in them.

AJ O'Neil [00:59:44]:
There are topics that are hard to deal with, like miscarriage, and, you know, there are, like, real life topics in the show. So it's like, I would give it a rage rating of PG 13 thematically. But PG in in terms of, like, it's it's a good family show. And and the first few episodes are hard to get into because it's not really clear where it's going. But once you get past the 3rd or 4th episode, it's it's a pretty gripping, show. And I'd I'd recommend it to anybody religious or not. And if you are religious and you watch it, you might have to just be okay with some of your beliefs being challenged or interpreted differently, but not in a bad way, not in a malicious way. Just, you know, taking different there's different beliefs represented, and and I think that it's all biblical, but it may not be biblical in the way that your particular pastor or or church group may have explained it before.

AJ O'Neil [01:00:44]:
And I don't you know, some people might think, well, that makes it wrong. But I I think that they stick to the biblical, story. It's just not it yeah. I I I don't know how to say that. And the last thing, super quick, I found this this came up again, beauty and the beat. I have a YouTube video that just couldn't be made today, but it's so amazing. It's, Belle in the Hood, and it's so funny. It's, yeah.

AJ O'Neil [01:01:15]:
That's that's basically how how to describe it. Fun fun little video that's a parody of Beauty and the Beast, the the morning song when it's, you know, hello. How's your bread? Oh, you know, I'm just reading a story. But but instead, it's just oh, it's it's so hilarious. And it has some of the early, you know, YouTube comedians and stuff in it back when when YouTube was a little bit more grassroots and, raw. You know? So, anyway, those those are my picks.

Charles Max Wood [01:01:48]:
Alright. Steve, what are your picks?

Steve Edwards [01:01:51]:
Oh, is AJ done? Sorry. I was taking a nap there for a second.

AJ O'Neil [01:01:55]:
Good. I wanted to give you time, Steve.

Steve Edwards [01:01:57]:
You gave me plenty. Trust me. Okay. So as I mentioned earlier, the little article I saw about Myspace, It's on triblive.com, and it says Myspace celebrates its 21st birthday. Do we still need it? So I didn't even know it existed either. You should've been in a while. I can remember when it first came out, and, one of the from a coding standpoint, if you wanna look at it from that standpoint, it was if I remember, the big thing was it allowed you to customize, like, CSS, And so you had people doing whole businesses off of creating customized Myspace themes for people to have for their own profile. I know I've heard some people say that was how they really started to learn about front end, styling and theming with CSS and HTML.

Steve Edwards [01:02:50]:
So, maybe from a security standpoint, it wasn't the best thing. But in terms of being a tool to allow people to learn how to use the web and make the web look good, it seems to have its own space in in coding history. Now for the totally in, oh, we lost lost Jeff there. Might not know that, the dad jokes are the the high point of any of these, podcasts. So here they are. So the other day, I saw a microbiologist. He was a lot bigger than I expected. Right? And then, over the weekend, I was working on my house and doing some, you know, work around the house, and I fell off a 50 foot ladder.

Steve Edwards [01:03:41]:
Fortunately, I was only on the bottom step. And then, here's a thought on Disney and Pinocchio. Was reading some about him lately, probably on TMZ or something, and heard that he hasn't had much luck on dating apps. But, I mean, what do you expect from a guy who's looking for relationship with no strings attached? Those are my picks.

Charles Max Wood [01:04:09]:
Alright. I'm gonna jump in, do my picks real fast. So the first pick is, I usually totally, I usually do a board game pick. Of course, you've been on before, so you probably know that. I'm gonna pick a game, challengers. It's kind of a mix of capture the flag and war. So you start out with your base set, you build your deck, and then, you play 1 on 1 against somebody else that's playing, and you flip over cards until you've beat their top card, then you get the flag. I mean, that that's more or less it.

Charles Max Wood [01:04:38]:
I mean, the deck building gets a little involved, but that's effectively the game. It'll play up to 8 people, and so you play 7 rounds and you just rotate chairs. Right? So each of you get a little schedule. Right? So you're on the red, and then you're on the green, then you're on the yellow, and then you're back to the red. And then whoever has the most points at the end of the round, or at the end of 7th round, the 2 top 2 go head to head and whoever wins, wins. That's the game. Really, really fun game. I tried to teach it to my family last night, and, I have to admit my wife was tired and didn't wanna play more than 2 rounds, but, let me get the board game weight for you.

Charles Max Wood [01:05:22]:
Here we go. Challengers. It is weighted at 1.78. So that's that's pretty approachable for most casual gamers. The first time you play it, it takes a little bit to kind of figure some of it out, but then after that, you're kind of good to go. A couple of other picks here real quick. I've been reading, Obi Fernandez's book on AI, and I am really enjoying getting into AI. So I'm gonna put a link to that in the chat, and then it'll show up as comments on Facebook, Twitch, and YouTube.

Charles Max Wood [01:05:58]:
But the last thing is, and I'm just gonna put it out there, I am working on getting, aiforjavascrip.com launched. You'll get emails for me about how to do AI and JavaScript. I'm putting together an AI summit, at the end of September. And just to give you a little bit of context, it's not focused on JavaScript or Ruby or any other language per se. It is primarily focused on how do you add AI features to your apps. So we're also not getting into PyTorch or anything like that. And then I'm gonna do a boot camp starting in late October, early November, and we'll go through okay. Here's how you use the some of the transcription services.

Charles Max Wood [01:06:43]:
Here's how you use some of the the services like chat or GPT 4 or, you know, some of the other ones that are out there. If you need a more custom model, here's how you use llama 3 or something like that. So we're we're just gonna go into all of that, some of the other, computer vision and image generation, video generation. So we'll get into all of that in the boot camp. And so I I don't have a website for it yet, but that's that's coming. So if you sign up for the summit or sign up for the email list, you'll definitely get notified when that comes up. So those are my picks. Tolley, what are your picks?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [01:07:17]:
Yeah. So I've got 3. The first one is a hobby you might wanna try if you wanna get better at communication. The general umbrella is called authentic relating, and then there are a few subcommunities. There's NBC, nonviolent communication, and circling, and I forgot the third one. Yeah. It's it's a really great group of people. You build.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [01:07:48]:
You get to know yourself more. And I've noticed my ability to communicate with my coworkers really increased since I started doing it. The second one is, EKRAYoga or, partner acrobatics. Essentially, you do acrobatics with somebody else, but it has, a a more smooth, kinda feel to it rather than cheerleading. And it's also a really great way to get to know other people and, learn more about somatic, communication. And the third thing is a resource that I've been writing. It's called the neurodivergent guide to the workplace. So if you identify as neurodivergent or if you simply want to learn some cool tricks on how to navigate the workplace better, check it out.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [01:08:47]:
It's on os.tolli.me.

Charles Max Wood [01:08:52]:
Awesome. Alright. If people wanna follow you online, where do they find you?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [01:08:57]:
Tully.me.

Charles Max Wood [01:08:59]:
One last thing. It's lc squad.com for the LeetCode meetup if you're in New York.

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [01:09:05]:
You got it.

Steve Edwards [01:09:06]:
And toli is t o l I. Right?

Anatoliy Zaslavskiy [01:09:08]:
Yep.

Charles Max Wood [01:09:08]:
Alright. Well, thanks for coming. Tell Jeff thanks for us. And we'll wrap it up. Till next time. Max out.