In this episode, Valentino and Ayush dive deep into the evolving landscape of web frameworks, particularly focusing on Ruby on Rails. Join them as they explore the challenges and advantages of transitioning from front-end-centric frameworks like Next.js to Rails, the seamless features Rails offers, and the complexities of integrating front-end components.

They also discuss exciting potentials like better integration of Vue component libraries with Rails, the simplicity and utility of custom elements, and the desire for Rails to incorporate features similar to Phoenix LiveView. The panelists share their thoughts on the evolving Rails stack, the need for better tools and documentation, and the excitement around upcoming Rails 8 features.

Stay tuned for an insightful conversation about the future of web development, the importance of versatile skills in the development community, and some amazing personal picks from our panelists, including top tech tools, fascinating music, and captivating movies. Don't miss out on this rich discussion filled with expert insights and practical advice for developers navigating the intricate world of web frameworks.

Valentino Stoll [00:00:04]:
Well, welcome back to another episode of the Ruby Rugs podcast. I'm one of your cohosts today, Valentino Stoll, and I'm joined by Ayush. Ayush, do you want to introduce yourself?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:00:17]:
Hello. Hello. I've been, I've been on the podcast a while, hopefully, frequent listeners would would know, but, yeah. Quick and drop the author of a book called the rails and hot fire codex. I'm on the bridgestone core team, and I talk a lot of crap about Ruby.

Valentino Stoll [00:00:33]:
Hey. You just released, another version of the the book, didn't you?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:00:37]:
Yeah. It's a minor update. Just a whole bunch of continuity fixes that a very diligent reader sent me. That book

Valentino Stoll [00:00:44]:
is so huge. I just imagine a minor update is really, like, a book in its own capacity.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:00:50]:
Oh, fucking hell. You can say that again. Like, that's what that that's what makes continuity so unbelievably hard. Like like, some of the mistakes that, this, reader sent me to, like, some, a piece of code that I've written that I kinda modify, like, 3 chapters later, but I'd forgotten to backboard the changes and stuff.

Valentino Stoll [00:01:09]:
This is what I'm waiting AI to do. Right? It's just like, look up all this nonsense work that has to happen, but, like, nobody really wants to do it. Right? Like

Ayush Nwatiya [00:01:20]:
Yeah. Yep. It's

Valentino Stoll [00:01:22]:
really why don't we have a reader bot and it's just, like, reads your book for you and it's like, okay. Yeah. Based on this latest stuff, you know, you should update these things. Right?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:01:32]:
That would that would be very useful indeed.

Valentino Stoll [00:01:38]:
So we'll we were talking before the show, kinda like, rails 8 is on the way here. Everybody's at rails world, and Ayush and I are feeling major FOMO right now. But we're just watching the stream come through of all of these incredible updates that are just getting pushed out and released and announced today. Some of them we already knew were coming. Right? Some of them we didn't. Ayush, do you wanna, like, maybe mention your top highlights so far?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:02:11]:
Yeah. So, I mean, all I'm looking at is the Twitter feed really because we don't have any, YouTube streams as yet. Although the keynote apparently will be up later today, which honestly, Ruby on Rails foundation is bloody amazing turnaround time. Yeah. That's great. Have it out on the same day. But yes. At Rails 8, the the highlights are, authentication, prop shaft, the the solid trifecta, which is solid cache, solid queues, solid cable, thruster, and command 2, which the the thing that I I don't know.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:02:48]:
Maybe I'm in the minority, but the thing out of all of that that I find least interesting is authentication, because I've always just built my own. I've never been a fan of device or anything like that. I just built my own, so I don't really care that Rails kinda has it because I'll still just use the one I I made myself.

Valentino Stoll [00:03:09]:
Yeah. That's fair. You always prefer your own tools in the end.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:03:14]:
Yeah. My ego is too big to let me use anything else.

Valentino Stoll [00:03:20]:
Yeah. I'm with you. I I feel like I've seen you know, we've all kind of, like, been preparing for this, I guess, solid trifecta that they're calling it now. Yeah. But, yeah, I mean, it definitely makes, makes me happy to see, you know, more and more not have to get set up when you first start up a new app. There's nothing worse than configuring something, when you just wanna get going.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:03:43]:
Yeah. Yeah. Completely. And I think just being able to drop the the reddish dependency is is something that's quite big. And, I'm also for, like, small indie apps, I think, having the the 3 solid libraries along with, all the move towards SQLite is just gonna reduce the amount of complexity pretty significantly because you don't need a database server anymore either. And, you just, like, yeah, you have one SQLite database for your actual database. You have another one for your cache. You have another one for q, and it's just, like, just creating files.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:04:20]:
It's not that hard.

Valentino Stoll [00:04:22]:
Right. Yeah. I mean, you know, the last leg of this is, like, wrapping everything in web assembly so you could just deploy to, you know, anywhere.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:04:33]:
Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:04:34]:
Which I don't know what will happen in our, near term. But, you know what? One thing I noticed from the feed, I was curious, what you thought about, it's kind of what's coming in and reals 8.1, which are like the 3 bigger features that I feel like have been missing from reels a lot, which is the action notifier, the search, and, House MD, which I thought was funny, is a markdown editor.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:05:04]:
Yeah. I love that name. So, yeah, they they they announced House and the it's something I've kind of been keeping my eye on, but, I have a little bit of scar tissue here with tricks because it's a fairly fiddly editor to use. You can't extend it much. They don't, I'm maybe recently, the the stance on it has changed, but they didn't seem particularly involved in trying to improve it or, even, like, have community involvement. Like, I remember, I created a a pull request and literally added an undocumented event to to the read me. And I think that pull request remained open up until, I don't know, 2 or 3 years later on. Oh my gosh.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:05:51]:
And it's literally just, literally 2 lines that read me. So and and I know other people who've kinda tried to improve tricks or stuff like that and just not really had, much success working with with the maintainers. So, yeah, how's I'm just tempering my expectations a little bit because, yeah, just I think they they've obviously built what works for them, which is not always gonna work for everyone else's use case. And I'd like, the community to be able to improve it and, just make it better. But whether that's gonna be viable, we'll we'll find out. But the other thing

Valentino Stoll [00:06:33]:
You bring up a great point. That's actually one thing I've been a little bit concerned about with Rails in that, like, it's it's a lot of you know, as things grow and get, you know, some solid foundation framework wise, like, the the need for reducing bloat becomes ever greater, especially as the number of maintainers doesn't really, you know, increase too much in proportionality at least. So I didn't worry, like, right? Like, I've noticed not just with tricks, but other, you know, pieces of the framework that very similar feedback, right? Like it's very long churn process for changes that really don't affect anything.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:07:17]:
Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:07:17]:
Yeah. And as and so I you know, hopefully, you know, with the Rails Foundation and everything like that, that is on the radar. Now make sure that the the maintainership, at least stays up to date with the progress of the rest of the framework.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:07:39]:
Yeah. Yeah. You'd hope so. But, like, I've read the the kinda remit of the Rails foundation and open source isn't really one of those things. Like, I see a lot on social media, but, oh, why can't the Rails foundation fund the best gem or that gem or this maintainer? And I'm like, that's not they never claimed that they would be doing any of that. Like, if you read the initial announcement, that, like, open source doesn't feature really in in their mission or whatever you wanna call it. Like, they wanna they'll, like, they'll focus on, like, improving documentation as of which is something that's happening.

Valentino Stoll [00:08:15]:
Yes.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:08:16]:
But, yeah, funding open source is not one of the things they do and right around it. It's not something they've ever claimed to do. So I don't think yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:08:25]:
I mean, I don't I don't know that they have to throw funding at it. More just, like, organizational, like, hey. Like, we we have this increase in the code base and, you know, we need maintainers like the organizational stuff. I feel like that's that's where I was hoping that the foundry would add to. Right. So that, you know, cases like this where, you know, we we have, like, only so many limited contributors, that have, like, you know, approval access to just merge something. Right? Which is good you know, both good and bad, but it's, like, definitely adds a bottleneck. And so I I would like to see something where, like, I don't know, people can vote people into contributorship.

Valentino Stoll [00:09:10]:
Right? Like, where, we can create a pipeline that just, like, makes this process easier. Because, like, to be honest, like, somebody somebody going through and just, like, approving a bunch of the documentation stuff, like, that would be a huge help. You know? And I I know that I know that somebody's probably already, like, working on that, but, like, every one of the rails repos, like

Ayush Nwatiya [00:09:31]:
Yeah. So that I think that's where there's a little bit of, mismanagement, I think, is because the rails core team is really good and they have a really defined structure, like core committers and the issues team. And With rails, they're always on it. Like, I've always got responses to any PRs pretty quickly in in rails. But then there's some stuff that's in rails that kinda sits in this gray area, which is kinda in rails but not, which is like all the hot wire libraries are they're in rails, but they kinda not because they're owned by 37 signals. Trix is another one because they Trix is, action text is in rails, but Trix is in, like, Basecamp's organization. So it's, like, 37 signals or whatever. So it's, like, yeah, there are certain things that sit in this weird gray area, which is kinda in rails, but kinda not.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:10:24]:
And I think that's where all the problems are happening.

Valentino Stoll [00:10:29]:
Well, you know, I I gotta hand it to Shopify. They seem to have, like, at least solve that issue with Ruby itself. Right? Like, they have their own fork of Ruby for a while, like, handling all of this stuff that they've been upstreaming over the years, for, like, copy on right and things like that. And I feel like, you know, they have had lots of, you know, repos that were basically versions of that that, like, made their way into the official, right, like, realm. Yeah. So it's possible. Right? Like, 37 signals is just another company. Right? Like Yep.

Valentino Stoll [00:11:10]:
I don't know.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:11:11]:
Possible. We'll just yeah. It is a bit of a frustration with I know people who've contributed to Hotwire, especially at, Marco Roth, gave a great talk, at a at a few conferences just about, obviously, all the good stuff and out why, but some of his frustrations as well. And a lot of that was, organizational. So we'll just have to see how this stuff evolves. And it's just my personal frustration is that, like, some of these things are in rails as default, like, tricks and stuff, but they aren't in in control of the rails core team. So that just creates a little bit of mismanagement, I think, but you know, see what happens. Yeah.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:11:56]:
The other two things that we you you mentioned for rails 8.1 are are things that, I'm very much looking forward to. Like, active record search is is something that I think is gonna really simplify matters.

Valentino Stoll [00:12:09]:
That is, like, the funniest thing. Right? Because, like, the whole rails, like, you know, hype started off of a blog, which is like search is like kind of something you add to a blog, right? As like your primary feature is. Yeah. Honestly, it's what you had almost any any site that you make with reels. So, yeah, I mean, it's super I'm super excited about that. I hope it's I mean, if it's anything like all the other reels, you know, interfaces, it should be very straightforward. And are you hoping that it aligns with any particular, you know, search gem that you've used in the past?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:12:48]:
No. Not really. So I for my book, I wrote an entire chapter on search, and that's why actually I'm quite happy that it's not built into rails. And I didn't really use, a gem. I just used the full text search and trigram search features in postgres, and then hand wrote a rel queries. It was a lot a lot of this is academic because once you teach a reader how to do those things and then, you could your level of understanding just goes way up. So my, I'm not really concerned about whether it aligns with the certain gem or not. The main thing is I just hope it has, support for full text search and trigram search, because there there are different strategies.

Valentino Stoll [00:13:36]:
Is there full text search in SQLite?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:13:39]:
Yes. There is.

Valentino Stoll [00:13:40]:
Yep. Oh, nice. Yeah. I feel like that's something that, you know, once you realize it's there, you're like, why do I need other things?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:13:47]:
You know? Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:13:49]:
I mean, until you start using it heavily. But if you just wanna, like, expose a text column, like, to search on, it's, like, pretty great, to be honest.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:13:58]:
Yeah. Like, I think, again, for the vast majority of use cases, just, your database search is probably good enough. Like, I I can only speak to postgres because I've not used, the full text search in other databases. But it's actually really good. It's only when you wanna start, like, go going quite advance is when you need to reach for something like, Elasticsearch. Like, if the client I'm working with at the moment is it's kinda like a AI powered search engine for, people and companies, kinda like a directory of of people and companies. And we've used Elasticsearch for that because, literally, the core offering is a search engine, so we need something quite beefy. But, that, like, that is probably the one of the very few exceptions when I would go reaching for something like Elasticsearch is when your core offering is literally search.

Valentino Stoll [00:14:54]:
Yeah. I I agree with you there. I mean, I feel like, you know, most rails apps are, like, business related, like, where you'll have a CRM or, like, some classic, you know, solution that you're just trying to solve with, like, your custom data or or things like that. And that, you know, having a just quick full text search or any deep, you know, I imagine what active search will become, will just be so great. Like, just Yeah. Hook it up to a model or, you know, whatever it may be, like, series of models. Like, I could see it being pretty huge.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:15:32]:
Yeah. I think it would really simplify matters. And, yeah, I think it's one of those things that's been a bit of a long time coming, but I'm glad it's it's it's it's on its way now. And, yeah, the action notifier is another one that is gonna be cool because, push notifications are just fiddly. That's it's just the nature of them. It is that they are just fiddly. And, if I if I my understanding of what the framework is is correct, then it's it's gonna handle sending notifications to web, iOS, and Android. So you don't need to worry about any of that on your own.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:16:12]:
Obviously, the web stuff is what kinda interests me the most because going forward, me, personally, my focus is gonna be completely on PWAs. Leaving the native stuff behind. Even though the second edition of my book is not gonna have any native stuff, I'm gonna remove it all in in favor of PWAs. So web push is something that I need to find or you can do it now in rails but action notify would just make it easier.

Valentino Stoll [00:16:41]:
Yeah. I hope they borrow from, Chris Oliver's notice, Jim. I've used that in the past and it

Ayush Nwatiya [00:16:47]:
Yeah. It's,

Valentino Stoll [00:16:47]:
like, very straightforward, and, you know, doable.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:16:53]:
Yeah. Yep. It's a it it is a very easy to use interface. I did, I did take a lot of inspiration from it, whenever I've built kinda notifications in apps. I've not reached for that library myself necessarily. Again, just because I don't really like reaching for dependencies. I prefer building stuff myself because I don't know. I'm just wired that way.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:17:16]:
But, it is a very solid library, and I I I I kinda look to it for inspiration.

Valentino Stoll [00:17:28]:
Yeah. It does it does add to the list of gems that people will have to migrate away from. Like like

Ayush Nwatiya [00:17:36]:
Yeah. Yeah. That's Yeah. That's it's kinda frustrating. It's true. It's it's kinda like, just the way rails goes. Right? Eventually, stuff ends up, in the platform. And then, like because you're yet carry away even paper clip for number years and then active stories became a thing and then everyone had to migrate.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:18:03]:
Yep. It's just the way it it goes. But I think I'm more looking forward to, rails 8.1 than 8, really. Because, yeah, while I was, I think I honestly should put something in a swagger every time I mention my book on this on this podcast. But but It's a great book, by the way.

Valentino Stoll [00:18:31]:
Hotwire codecs. Check it out.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:18:33]:
Rails.hotwirecodex.com. Go buy it now. Right. But I I had a, like, a second edition plan, right, for the everything new, and that's gonna be, like, a paid upgrade. But looking at everything that's come out, I think I might actually wait for reals 8.1 because then I can cover active record search and action notifier, which are, like, key parts of, any web application. And since I'm kinda standardizing around PWAs, it makes sense to wait for action notifier because I don't wanna build my own system, which is I know gonna be outdated very soon.

Valentino Stoll [00:19:18]:
Yeah. On on the topic of books, I saw, Obi Fernandez posting, an update to the rails way, now the rails eight way.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:19:27]:
Yeah. The rails eight way. I saw that book.

Valentino Stoll [00:19:29]:
I'm excited to to be honest, I'll probably learn all the new rails eight features by reading that book.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:19:36]:
Yeah. I mean, that that, you know, that book's gonna be solid. It's gonna be it's gonna be good. Quite a lot of good stuff coming down the pipeline. What are your feelings on Kamal? Have you used it? Do you have any opinions on it?

Valentino Stoll [00:19:54]:
I'm interested, Kamal. I'm kind of waiting for it to just, like, mature a little more. You know, all this all the, like, you know, the transitions of traffic as an example.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:20:04]:
Yeah. You

Valentino Stoll [00:20:05]:
know, there's a lot of, like, shifting sand still and just from like I don't personally use it every day. So like, just from what I see, it seems to be like a lot of the infrastructure is changing around as they start to learn more and more the edge cases and configuration options and things like that. So, I do have a couple of, like, you know, doku apps that I would like to migrate eventually, but I'll probably wait till next year, to be honest, just to, like, let Rails 8, like, settle and have everything more firmed up.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:20:44]:
Fair enough. Yeah. That's a good way to go about it. I I've kinda just been watching from afar as well with Kamal, largely because it's it's Docker based, and I, I don't understand docker well enough to not be afraid of it as yet. So so, yeah, it's probably just one of those things I need to look at at some point. But, like, my my one frustration with, Docker and, well, even Kamal in general is that it adds this additional moving part of a Docker registry. Like, if I all I've got is a very simple in the app that runs on one box. I don't want to deal with, excuse me.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:21:24]:
I don't wanna have to deal with, the additional complexity of, pushing to a docker registry and then my server pulling from there. Like, it's just me working on it on just by myself, running it on one box. Like, why can't I build the Docker container locally and then just push that up to the server?

Valentino Stoll [00:21:45]:
Yeah. You make a great point. Like, why have Docker if you have one server?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:21:52]:
Yep. That's another great point as well.

Valentino Stoll [00:21:57]:
Yeah. I mean, I I feel like it it's definitely like a foundational choice. Right? Like, I think of it as, like, Legos. Right? Like, where you have, like, you know, if you just build Legos on a table, like, yeah, that's that's fine. But you have, like, a sheet where you're, like, sticking the Legos to to build your, you know, thing. It's a lot easier to to build it as it doesn't move around. And I don't know. I feel like it's kind of like that as it's like laying the foundation for you to add more stuff that, you know, eventually you're going to need to add it.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:22:31]:
Yeah. You

Valentino Stoll [00:22:32]:
know, I feel like the probability of not extending what you have, if you actually make something that you use every day, it's like very low chance that you're not just going to add something new to your stack. And so I like that it's there, right? Like, it just it is like the modular framework for that aspect of things. But at the same time, you know, Docker development is like it definitely slows you down. Like, there are there are edge cases that you can't even imagine from using platforms. Right? Cross platform use of, like, a single interface. It's like, it never works out, like, smoothly.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:23:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. That's why at some point, I'm, I wanna do just a little deep dive personally into what it what it takes to just deploy a real app to a Linux box, with something like Kari in front of it, and just see what or if there's a way to kinda simplify that without Docker.

Valentino Stoll [00:23:41]:
Yeah.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:23:43]:
Because, yeah, you don't need docker. But the one big advantage of something like, Kamal, I think, is if you want to sell, like, a one style product that, like, a a web app that you just do a one off sale for. I've been thinking about this for, like, months. Before once was even a thing, this kind of idea was in my mind. There is absolutely no sane way to distribute, a a web app without docker. It's just this rabbit hole of complexity. Like, it just gets you're telling a customer to kinda do too much. Like, if I was selling a Rails app, like, that that was a one off sale, and, without dockerizing it, I would basically be selling only to other people that knew Rails.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:24:35]:
No one else would go anywhere near that.

Valentino Stoll [00:24:39]:
Yeah. That's a good point. I mean, distribution of an application that's bundled up, like, if you're not, like, creating an executable or something. Right? Yeah. Like, how do you do that? I do like, we had Andy on, about, the Glimmer project. Right? I did like I like that kind of idea of, like, literally packaging something up as like a binary and like that's how you I mean, that's a great way to ship things, right? It's like, okay, those cross platform, like distribution is like already established and pretty straightforward and Glimmer is one of those frameworks that makes that process easy. Right. And like the whole like, you know, Dragon Ruby toolkit for game distribution.

Valentino Stoll [00:25:34]:
I feel like all that's really missing. And I know that, like Andy was mentioning that he's trying to work on that, you know, front end aspect of the glimmer project. But, yeah, that's what's missing. It's kinda like the website of that distribution where we have, like, the browsers now, which I think the you know, I thought the goal of the browser was to be that distribution platform. Yeah. But it's like the competition between the browsers has just, like, stifled progress, like, so much. Like, it's kind of remarkable. Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:26:08]:
People are just like, okay with that. Like, yeah, we're just gonna like, you know, no no problem. Like, all these browsers are competing, so, like, we're just not gonna have a distribution platform for, you know, web. Yeah. That's crazy to me. Like,

Ayush Nwatiya [00:26:26]:
It is a bit weird.

Valentino Stoll [00:26:30]:
Yeah. I don't know. I was hopeful with, like, travel Ruby or something like that that we'd see maybe something a little, little more progress, but, I guess it's hard to sell that. Right? Like, if

Ayush Nwatiya [00:26:42]:
you Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:26:44]:
If your end users are all distributed, how do you how do you deliver the best thing? Right?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:26:52]:
Yep. It's, it's no simple problem. If it was simpler, it would have probably been solved by now.

Valentino Stoll [00:26:59]:
Alright. That does bring me to, another announcement with the the turbo, what is it?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:27:07]:
Hotwire Native. Hotwire

Valentino Stoll [00:27:08]:
Native? Yeah. Yeah. Because we did we had a oh, I'm blanking on his name now.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:27:15]:
Joe.

Valentino Stoll [00:27:16]:
Yeah. Joe. We had Joe on before a a few times, I think.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:27:20]:
Okay.

Valentino Stoll [00:27:21]:
They were he was talking about turbo native and the progress that he was making there and, apparently, has been collaborating, right, with 37 signals

Ayush Nwatiya [00:27:29]:
Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:27:29]:
That's happened, which is really exciting. Because I know the last time I was messing around with that, it's, like, pretty decent. I mean, they're still, like, still gotta write some objective c or not objective c, but, like, Swift Yeah. And Android. Like, a small amount of code now.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:27:46]:
Yeah. It's true. Have to. But I think it's it's the right approach that you still have. You have an expert project, an Android studio project. Your code base is still separate. I think, that's a very good approach. And I I I spoke at length, about this at a couple of conferences last year.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:28:04]:
So if you look up, building thermo native apps with with my name, you'll find my talk at friendly.rvlastyear, about this. And I I completely agree with the right approach and, honestly, like, what they've done just seems more like a rebrand. And I think it is a rebrand for the better because, having turbo native and strata as separate things, it was just a little bit confusing and they've just unified those under this Hotwire native umbrella now. So it's it's one thing, like, both the native kind of worlds are just one thing. And the documentation is, a lot better, which I believe Joe helped out with. And, the other thing was, I think Joe also built a library called turbo navigator, which, so a lot of, like, the the native navigation stuff on iOS, you have to, to build on your own. But on Android, it's kind of part of the platform. So Joe had built library called turbo navigator, which kind of brought the same ergonomics to iOS as well, which now I believe is part of hot wire native.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:29:15]:
That does simplify life on iOS as well. So, yeah, it's all all this very good stuff. Stuff I'll personally remain quite blissfully ignorant of, though, because I've just had I've had enough of native in my life. I don't want anymore.

Valentino Stoll [00:29:35]:
Yeah. And it it's it's gonna be hard to stay away from it with all this Apple intelligence stuff, now even increasing the hype. And I imagine, you know, there's a Google version of that out there too, you know, drawing more and more people to their mobile devices.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:29:52]:
Yeah. Quite possibly. Yeah. But yeah. I don't know. I think PWAs, I hope, just they just it just needs better marketing, I think. And it also needs, like, the the big tech companies to kinda come on board with it, which is the harder part. Like, what I would really like to see is, the ability to put a button on a website that says install to home screen, and you tap it and it just does it.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:30:24]:
Because, like, now, the the best solution you can have is you can have that button and you can have instructions on what to do, which is usually, like, click a share button and then add the home screen or whatever. You can't automate that. There is no API to do that. But you can see why Apple and Android don't wanna do that.

Valentino Stoll [00:30:43]:
Why? We don't have to get into it.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:30:53]:
Yeah. Got something to do with green paper.

Valentino Stoll [00:31:02]:
I I will say, like, just taking a step back to the the conference again, Rails World. I mean, it is packed. You see the audience in a lot of these photos. And, it's kind of exciting to see, you know, people all over the world coming together, making this stuff happen and tripping stuff. It's, you know, there's no way Rails could be dead with that crowd.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:31:24]:
Oh, yeah. Real Rails is just not the fashionable thing anymore. It's, yeah. So I kinda I've been asked before, like, because I I've only come to rails in 20:20 hours mobile developer before that. So, like, I've been asked, like, did I find rails to be some kinda, like, niche framework or something that's in the past when I got into it? And I'm like, no. I never thought that for one second. I always thought of it as a mature, solid piece of technology that just wasn't fashionable anymore. And I'm fairly cynical enough to not give a shit about the fashion aspect of tech, like, I mean, you have Angular, you have React, these things just go and come in waves and and, like, just let me write HTML and CSS, like, and and Groovy on the back end that's that generates HTML and CSS and I'm happy.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:32:19]:
I don't really care about anything else.

Valentino Stoll [00:32:24]:
Yeah. I mean, it's hard to, you know, it's hard to sell somebody focused on front end, like, a framework that they don't understand. And it's, you know, likewise the same way, right? Like, I know a lot of front end people that are like, you know, very happy with, you know, next JS or something like that, and they're very efficient in it and makes them productive. Like, you know, why would they switch to rails? And maybe until they need, like, file upload or something. No. I don't know. There are, like, some things in rails that do just like, they would just work and they make things very easy. And so I feel like the more we can expose, like, what those things are and how easy it is, the more people will adapt to it for sure.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:33:20]:
Yeah. Completely. I mean, yeah, nothing to add to that.

Valentino Stoll [00:33:29]:
So what's something I'm I'm curious because, you're kind of, like, all over the place in the stack. What's something from Rails that you use that, like, you know, you've used in other frameworks, that is just, like, unparalleled using Rails with?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:33:49]:
Don't know. It's hard to pick just one because Rails is the only back end stack that I've ever used. So it's hard to kinda compare it to something else. But, like, everything you kinda need to build a modern web app is kinda standardized in some way or the other. Like, you like, when you look at other stacks, it's more anecdotal from when I go speaking to, the JavaScript people. It's, that you kinda need to, pull in stuff, plugins and things for basic things like file upload. You need to go look for a a plugin for that authentication. You gotta look go look for a plugin for that.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:34:34]:
You, yeah. You basically need to build a stack that rails gives you already out of the box. Like, if you're building a web application, all the pieces you need are already in rails, which obviously makes it a bit of a behemoth. And when you need something very simple, it's not the right deal for the job for that reason. But for most modern web applications, you do need all that and Rails just gives it to you.

Valentino Stoll [00:35:06]:
Yeah. I agree there. I mean, it's it's a little tricky because, like, I'm still trying to find the right, like, front end magic. Right? Like, if I want to, like, I don't know, add some, like, UX flourishes using some, you know, MPM package or something. There's, like, kind of 8 different ways to integrate that into the real app. And so, I mean, I know that, like, you know, there there is some hope in the in the pipeline coming, but it's still very much divided on how the best approach is. Like, the standard is kind of still not firmed yet. I I don't know.

Valentino Stoll [00:35:52]:
What what's your impression there on, like, you know, integrating front end components that are external to the ecosystem?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:36:01]:
It's it's, yeah, but I kind of, like, So I quite like view component, the library. I know there was some chatter to merge that with rails. The last time I met Joel Huxley, who's the leader of the project, which was 2022 summer 22 at Brighton Ruby, he still had ambitions of of merging it into rails. So it that is one dependent like, I I don't reach for a lot of dependencies naturally for every app. A view component is one of them. And I quite like that approach because it, again, focuses on generating generating HTML on the server, which is just, like, the just the construct with which you generated is, like, componentized. And you send that down to the browser. And then if you need, like, JavaScript components, I just use custom elements.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:37:05]:
Like, they are absolutely amazing. It blows my mind that they're not more widely used than they are. They are just so so useful. Like, last year when I was helping out with the with the rails world conference website, I was mentoring the junior developer who built it. And we needed to put, like, a back to top button on the, on the web page which kinda which appears only when you've kinda scrolled down twice the height of the view port. And this was a Jackal app, so we didn't have a JavaScript pipeline and I don't hate myself, which is why we wanna set one up. So we are limited to basically vanilla JavaScript. So, like, my first instinct would have been to to reach for a stimulus controller, but I didn't really wanna pull in JavaScript dependencies because we merged it right in vanilla JavaScript without any kind of bundling or anything.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:37:59]:
So I just showed her how to use a custom element and it was just so elegant and so simple. And it's just such a great solution to so many problems.

Valentino Stoll [00:38:13]:
Yeah. It's funny you mentioned, Joel Draper. I

Ayush Nwatiya [00:38:16]:
was I've been following it. Joel Hoxley. Joel Draper is Joel Draper is the flex guy.

Valentino Stoll [00:38:22]:
Right. Flex guy. Oh, it made me think of the flex guy.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:38:26]:
Okay. Yeah. The boat cabo Joel

Valentino Stoll [00:38:28]:
The view the view component stuff that, Joel Hoxley is working on is is really impressive. I mean, there's there's always so much, like, coming out there too. And I and I it makes me think of Joel Draper, who is fun. Funny. They're both Joel working on similar

Ayush Nwatiya [00:38:44]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:38:46]:
With the Flex repo. I mean, I just saw I've been following, the flecks, the

Ayush Nwatiya [00:38:55]:
Oh, okay. Yeah. Grabber,

Valentino Stoll [00:38:56]:
which basically makes, like, a bidirectional, you know, data coupled view component, basically, with flex, that you can, like, serve asynchronously over WebSockets. So, like, get updates. Really cool stuff, where you get kind of, like, the data coupled, back end to the front end in a single component. It's, like, really neat. And to be honest, like, the whole Phoenix Live View, like, which has been out a long time. Right?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:39:26]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:39:28]:
You know, I've been waiting for something like that in reels for the longest time because, we're close with, you know, Hotwire. I know that was, like, kind of supposed to be, the driver for that. It is still a little bit clunky, I think, with all the IDs and trying to manage what streams to what and what what file holds, what update, right, and what gets executed where is still a little bit hard to follow.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:39:56]:
Yeah. It is. I've not used LiveView, but, LiveView is obviously purpose built for one thing. And Right. Stuff like Action Cable and and, the the broadcast system within Hotwire is, just like a feature of a bigger thing. Yeah. Yeah. I guess that's why it just felt it feels a bit bolted on because because it is.

Valentino Stoll [00:40:17]:
It is. Yeah.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:40:21]:
That's funny.

Valentino Stoll [00:40:24]:
But, you know, I mean, I'm I'm hopeful. Like, it's a it's funny that, like, you know, Vue component as an example hasn't, like, kind of made its way into the rails ecosystem, with how with its longevity. Right. Yeah. Obviously, there's some trepidation for a reason, right? Like, it it does introduce kind of some, you know, DSL that you have to be familiar with, and it's not quite as realsy as it it could be. It's I guess it's more the Ruby way than the Rails way, which is kind of funny.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:40:59]:
Yeah. That's that's very true. I don't know exactly what the objections to getting it into reals were, but, yeah, that is probably likely one of them is that it just feels a bit different. I couldn't I couldn't articulate exactly why.

Valentino Stoll [00:41:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's funny because, like, I I remember, you know, I haven't done view components in a while, but the last I did, it was, like, great encapsulation. You know? You could test the changes that get made to your component. It's encapsulated perfectly. And, you know, when you mutate the props, the the actual HTML that gets rendered gets changed in specific ways, and you don't have to worry about it. It's all Ruby. I mean, there's a lot of appealing qualities of it.

Valentino Stoll [00:41:48]:
Yeah. I feel like it it it becomes the same, like, front end issue of, okay, well, how do you extend it? How do you, like, add these custom components or custom features, and then you end up tied into the DSL of the framework and and because it's it's its own framework.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:42:05]:
Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:42:05]:
And I feel like Flex kinda has the same issues there too. Right? It's, if you wanted to create your own, you know, element or something like that, or component, it's not exactly straightforward because you have to follow however the framework has it set up.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:42:21]:
Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:42:23]:
And, you know, all of these things go against what most front end people do. So I feel like the, you know, the, you know, the rails and Ruby, like, developer ecosystem that's full stack, like, slowly gets narrowed in as you get to, like, the front end. Like, it's very, like, back it's been back end heavy for a long time.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:42:45]:
Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:42:45]:
It's been fair. Like, it's it's getting wider. Right? But, like, I feel like even still that, like, your audience narrows quite a bit when you get, like, closer to the front end side of things.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:42:57]:
Yeah. It does. I don't know. Maybe I'm, a bit old school. I I don't really see a massive reason for there to be this demarcation between front end and back end. Like, sure, you might be better at 1 compared to the other. But I think if you're a web developer, you should just be able to do everything.

Valentino Stoll [00:43:20]:
Well, I think it it comes in it I I'm torn. Right? Like, I've been in a small organization where having full stack people is, you know, very beneficial. And, like, when you have fewer people, it's just easier to move faster if everybody kind of touches on all the same things. Mhmm. But in a bigger organization too, it's, like, kind of nice having people that just devote themselves to, like, making sure front end components work smoothly. Right? Or, like, once you get a design system in play, making sure that all the components are uniform across all of your applications and, making sure that, like, things is like it's a smooth experience for the user. You know, UX is like on its own is probably its own, you know, field. Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:44:08]:
And so, like, if you have a team devoted to just UX, like, the number of back end things they'd have to work on is gonna get smaller and smaller as they start to, you know, work on more and more of that system that they're building, to be honest. And so I was like, it's a double edged sword, really, because, like, maybe for, like, maybe for most people working in Rails. Right? Like, you want that full feature set and full stack mentality. Yeah. As as a larger entity, it just, like, becomes less and less attractive or desire like, your need for it starts to thin out, right, after a certain

Ayush Nwatiya [00:44:50]:
Yep.

Valentino Stoll [00:44:51]:
So I don't know. It's what the problem is, like, we need

Ayush Nwatiya [00:44:55]:
both. Yep.

Valentino Stoll [00:44:59]:
Like, the I don't know. The desire for specialists is, like, kind of still, important. Right? Like

Ayush Nwatiya [00:45:05]:
Yeah. Yeah. It is.

Valentino Stoll [00:45:06]:
You're still gonna need somebody to work specifically on security at some point if you if that's part of your core business. Right? And, or if you have regulatory, aspects of your business, you know, you're going to have these specialists that are in demand no matter what. So I don't know that it's it's hard because, like, as a perfect example of, like, security, right? Like active record encryption is, like, awesome. Right? And they have you know, when they were first releasing that, you know, they had, like, a third party auditor come in and make sure that, you know, all of the encryption stuff because, like, nobody's working on encryption stuff specifically, you know, on the real support team. I mean, there there are a handful of people that have knowledge of it. Right?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:45:51]:
Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:45:51]:
But they're not, like, working on the new algorithms, you know?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:45:54]:
Yep. Yeah. Yeah. That's probably my key territory. Yeah. I'd be worried if they were working on the algorithms.

Valentino Stoll [00:46:03]:
Right. Yeah. Like, what are they sneaking in? Right? Like, not like Yeah. Just reminds me of that. And, to be honest, Adam Gordon Bell, he has this great podcast, the corecursive podcast. And he had somebody they did this whole, like, dialogue, like, reenacting that, security incident recently that made it into the compiler kernels, from some, like, you know, Chinese coconspirator, supposedly. Like, you know, they don't really know, like, too much of the details, but just, like, you know, part of the I I I forget. Was it the GNU compiler? It was some something tangentially related to the assembly aspects of compiling, where they were able to get, like, you know, a, I don't know, some kind of, like, like, mutation to the or permutation to the compiling that, like, made it, like, inject code, like, with anything that was compiled with it.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:47:12]:
Yep.

Valentino Stoll [00:47:13]:
And that spread like crazy. I it it was just, like, a very interesting, dialogue.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:47:20]:
But it

Valentino Stoll [00:47:20]:
makes you think of this stuff. Right? Like, you know, what else is just, like, in there? There's no I mean, you'd be selective of your contributors, but I don't know. That that's a, like, a long winded thing about, you know, specialists, really. But, like, you know, I don't think we should shy away from them. And, you know, the the more we can keep things modular and accessible, the better, that the framework will be. But

Ayush Nwatiya [00:47:49]:
Yeah. I completely agree with all your points on on specialists, and it's absolutely a good thing when you have someone who's gone really deep on, like, yeah, one aspect of maybe, like, front end or back end or whatever. But, I also think that, you shouldn't be completely unaware of the other thing. Like, if you're a front end specialist and you're, like, ace at that, it shouldn't mean that you're afraid to create a model, a controller, a database migration, that kind of select. Yeah. Sure. You may not be as good at at it as someone who specializes in in the back end, but, I think you should be competent enough to be able to do the basics.

Valentino Stoll [00:48:33]:
Yeah. I don't disagree with that. I I think having the tools and the framework that makes that easier to do, the better. Like, all these generators are great. I mean, to be honest, I would like to see some improvements there to the the whole generator aspect of things and customization, which I know you already can do, but I don't know. It seems like not straightforward as a first time user on, like, what you can generate, what's available, like the you know, that is definitely discoverability is definitely still a problem within the

Ayush Nwatiya [00:49:10]:
Yeah. It is. Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:49:12]:
Which the the guides are great. I'm so happy to see all the documentation, you know, getting the the tender love and care that it needs. But, you know, it's still like discoverability problem is, you know, even on the development side is still an issue. I don't know. What do you what do you point people to that? Like, let's say you're talking with somebody on the JavaScript side and you're, like, trying to convince them, you know, hey. Like, it's not so hard. Like, what do you point them at?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:49:43]:
Yeah. It's a good question. Off the top of my head, I I wouldn't know what to point them at. It would I'd probably look for a blog post, to be honest. I'd probably look very step by step tutorial on on how to, like, create a model or whatever, because yeah. The rails guys are very good, but they're also kinda aimed at someone who's actually trying to, like, learn rails or is familiar with with rails, which is fine because you need you need to write for a set of target audience. Otherwise, nothing's ever gonna make any sense. But, yeah, if I'm talking to someone who's, like, more front end, he doesn't really know much about rails, and unless they're, like, keen to really get into Rails, the guide is probably not where I would send them.

Valentino Stoll [00:50:29]:
That makes somebody should go create a Ruby toolbox for Rails tutorials. Right? I feel like there's value so much value there.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:50:39]:
Oh, you should just buy my book.

Valentino Stoll [00:50:41]:
Yeah. Or buy Ayush's book. Go ahead. I used this book, The hotwire.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:50:52]:
Railsandhotfirecodex.com. Go and buy it now.

Valentino Stoll [00:50:58]:
Honestly, that book is so impressively, like, large and, like, covers all the topics you could possibly need. Like, we should be pumping it out there because, like, honestly, if hey. If you have questions about that Hotwire framework, like, it's in there. The answer is in there.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:51:15]:
Yeah. And if if it's not, you can email me.

Valentino Stoll [00:51:18]:
Right. You'll you'll add

Ayush Nwatiya [00:51:20]:
a couple of can demand. Like, I demand that you write about this feature. I may not pay attention I may not pay any attention to your demand, but you you can write me if you want. Oh, that's great.

Valentino Stoll [00:51:39]:
Alright. So so what else do you, feel like you're missing out on in real world?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:51:45]:
I don't know. For me, I think conferences are just about networking. I don't necessarily miss any of the talks because I just catch up on YouTube afterwards. Most conferences these days put their talks on YouTube. The main reason I kinda wish I was there is the networking aspect, especially as a freelancer. It's it's kinda key, but, yeah, again, as a freelancer getting over to Toronto and paying for, I think it was, like, $500, $600 ticket, on top of hotels and flights. It's just like and then, the opportunity cost of, lost income because the cycle will be probably a week, and that's one week of income lost you're looking at. When you combine everything, you're probably looking at closer to, like, $5,000, and that's, like, do I really wanna spend that much? Like, I'm I'm going I'm going to New Zealand for 6 weeks at the end of the year, and I'm probably spending about £6,000 for that entire trip for 6 weeks.

Valentino Stoll [00:52:48]:
Yeah. Yeah. You know, you're in, the European region too, which has so many great conferences. So, you know, I I understand totally. I I actually have FOMO myself about all those great conferences that are there, that I just probably won't ever get to.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:53:04]:
Yeah. They're really good. Like, I think I'd give a shout out to friendly.rb where I spoke last year. I couldn't it was last week. I couldn't go this year just because the dates didn't work for me. I had another trip planned. But, yeah, if anyone's looking to get over to Europe, that's probably one. And I'm speaking at Haggis Ruby next month as well.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:53:23]:
That's the 1st year of that conference in Edinburgh. So that should be fun because Ollie, who we had on this show, I think, 2 or 3 weeks ago, he's a speaker as well. So, I'm sure that'll be a good conference as well.

Valentino Stoll [00:53:37]:
Yeah. Edinburgh is beautiful too.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:53:39]:
Yeah. It's a lovely city. I love going there.

Valentino Stoll [00:53:41]:
Well, we've talked about so much here.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:53:44]:
Yeah. I think we've covered, everything that we know of at this point. That is where we're going.

Valentino Stoll [00:53:51]:
To have some follow-up talks with, you know, some of the the cocreators here.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:53:56]:
Yeah. I think we should ask I think we really need to get, Rosa on to talk about SolidQ. I love that. Yeah. And I think we should get someone. I don't I think it's Donald who, handles a lot of the Kamal stuff. I'd love to get him on and chat Kamal with him.

Valentino Stoll [00:54:14]:
Yeah. We'll have to schedule it.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:54:16]:
Yeah. We got a couple of names.

Valentino Stoll [00:54:17]:
So many great insights there, you know, what's coming out, but, you know

Ayush Nwatiya [00:54:20]:
Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:54:21]:
It's hard to use it all, you know, right away. So it'd be good to explore kinda how it all works and how you can benefit from it because I wanna know.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:54:29]:
Yeah. Exactly. Like, sometimes the best way is just to have, like, a couple of couple of idiots like us just ask stupid questions, to to the expert, and that's how, like, other people can also learn. So definitely Yeah.

Valentino Stoll [00:54:45]:
Totally.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:54:45]:
Yeah. We're getting them on.

Valentino Stoll [00:54:50]:
Alright. Well, is there anything else you wanted to talk about today, Ish?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:54:54]:
No. I think that covers it. Awesome.

Valentino Stoll [00:54:59]:
Well, let's let's move into our picks.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:55:01]:
Alright. You wanna

Valentino Stoll [00:55:04]:
go first, or you want me to?

Ayush Nwatiya [00:55:05]:
Yeah. I'll go first. So I'll do a musical pick and a movie pick, I think. I I don't have actually, I'll do a tech pick as well. So I have a musical pick. I went to see a band called Big Big Train, on Tuesday. They're like an English progressive rock band. They to me, they kinda just embody England as a country.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:55:27]:
They're like the most English band you could ever have. They sing about, like, the history and the countryside and, they had one album which is, like, about a little bit about space exploration. They have a song called Apollo and Voyager and stuff. So they're they're, like, very and the latest album has 2 songs about cricket. So they're about as English a band as you could possibly get. That's great. So it, I absolutely love them. They're a great live band as well.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:55:58]:
I believe they're over in America next year for a few shows in the spring. So if live music is your thing, I'd recommend checking them out. I recently saw a movie called See How They Run, which I I I just loved it. It's it's a it's a twist on the who done it genre. So, it's kinda it the the events take place around, a performance of the play, the mouse trap, which itself is a good old fashioned whodunit written by Agatha Christie, which has been running here in London for something like 70 or 80 years or something silly like that. So the events of this movie take place around that performance and it is just such a self aware and self deprecating movie. Like, how Deadpool is self aware for superhero movies and kinda makes fun of itself. I didn't see how they run is equally self aware to the hood on a genre and equally makes fun of itself.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:57:06]:
And I just love movies that are like that. It's like, we we know we're full of shit and we're not gonna make any pretense that we're not full of shit. It's some brilliant, brilliantly written. So, yeah, that's my movie pick. And yesterday, I was just looking for some applications that would help me, screen record and webcam record at the same time to do, like, a screencast or something if I just wanna send a demo of something I'm doing to a friend. I couldn't find something that was, like, cheap. Just that literally just did this one thing, which is record my screen and the webcam and give me a video file at the end. But then I found this app called clean shot x or clean shot 10.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:57:52]:
I don't know which one. But, yeah, clean shot dot com. I haven't bought it yet, but it looks exactly like what I'm after. So if you if you're looking to record screencasts, clean shot is probably a good way to go if you're on a Mac. Right. That's my picks.

Valentino Stoll [00:58:09]:
Awesome. Yeah. I'm a have to check these out. So I have, just a a couple picks here. The, Ruby AI happy hour is happening again in New York City. This time, they're doing a demo night, so I'm excited to go to that. Actually, giving a demo of a project I started called Podcast Buddy, which I hope to have on the show soon. But, a little AI companion that can join and answer questions and drives the whole thing and, summarizes events and things.

Valentino Stoll [00:58:42]:
So I'm pretty excited about, demoing that. And, I I was hoping to get a fully offline, version of it working, but the, you know, the talk back aspect of it is, like, very much just like a speak command at this point to, OSX, or Mac.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:59:02]:
Oh, good.

Valentino Stoll [00:59:05]:
Otherwise, there's, like, servers involved and, extra you know, it's way too many dependencies,

Ayush Nwatiya [00:59:11]:
to

Valentino Stoll [00:59:11]:
get the, text to speech working just right.

Ayush Nwatiya [00:59:14]:
And that simple is good. I like I like simple.

Valentino Stoll [00:59:18]:
Yep. So, check it out, Podcast Buddy. Yeah. You can run it, just in the command line, and it'll, like, transcribe your, conversate I use it for meetings too. It's great. Fully offline transcription, using words for CPP. And, next to that, I I was revisiting something, one of our projects at Doximity called SimpleKick. It's a job orchestration for Sidekick, and it's it's fantastic.

Valentino Stoll [00:59:48]:
It gives you, like, ways to run jobs in parallel and, orchestrate many things at once and get callbacks when things are complete or if there's failures. It's super useful, and, I I would definitely recommend checking that out as well.

Ayush Nwatiya [01:00:04]:
Now what's it called again?

Valentino Stoll [01:00:05]:
Simple kick. So simple and then k I q.

Ayush Nwatiya [01:00:10]:
Oh, okay. Nice.

Valentino Stoll [01:00:14]:
Cool. And we build it around on top of side Sidekick itself, and it does require, Sidekick Pro, but

Ayush Nwatiya [01:00:24]:
Okay. Yeah. I'm just looking at the ReadMe now because, yeah, I was gonna say that the the the my client, we pay for Sidekick Enterprise and we've got quite a lot of complex stuff around batching and callbacks and stuff like that. So, I'll I'll check this out. Maybe it could make life easier in some way or the other.

Valentino Stoll [01:00:41]:
Oh, yeah. I mean, I I have a few things working with this, and, it just it does. It makes the whole process just, like, so streamlined. Nice. Easy to reason about. Well, that's it for me. I hope everybody, out there is enjoying, rails world feed as much as we are. And, hopefully, we can get some of these, you know, some of these speakers lined up here and, dig in some more on the details coming soon.

Ayush Nwatiya [01:01:13]:
Yeah. Absolutely. It'd be great to get them on the show and pick their brains.

Valentino Stoll [01:01:18]:
Yep. Alright. Well, until next time, folks. Valentino out.

Ayush Nwatiya [01:01:23]:
Cheers. Take care, everyone.