Talking about their 2023 Hot Takes and predictions, Jack, Paige, and TJ tackle this week's Panelist episode. They discuss their hopes for this year as well as potential improvements to the various languages and technologies. Additionally, they also dive into some of the software development tools and share their recommendations and expectations for them. 

Hey everybody and welcome to another episode of React Roundup. I am your host today, TJ Vantol, along with my co-host, Paige Neetringhouse

 

Hey everyone.

 

and Jack Harrington.

 

Hey there, how you doing?

 

So yeah, so today we're going to do a panelist episode and this should be a fun one because at least when we're recording this it is newly 2023.

 

Yeah!

 

We are into a new year

 

Freshly

 

and

 

minted.

 

as I think is a common tradition, we wanted to take this episode to talk about some predictions. hot

 

Mm-hmm.

 

takes, what we think. We definitely won't replay this episode. We're just gonna leave

 

Ha ha ha 

 

these hot takes here. Just gonna assume we're completely correct

 

Ah!

 

and roll with it. But let's just dive right into it. And Jack, you volunteered. You've got our first hot takes. Do you wanna open us up?

 

Sure, I'm going to go geeky on my first hot take and I'm going to say that 2023 is all about hydration. And I don't mean

 

Hmm

 

that from a fluid standpoint.

 

Hehehe

 

I mean that from,

 

Hehehe

 

which is important, by the way, very important, stay hydrated. But if you look at like Next.js 13, you'll get Astro, you know, all of the frameworks are trying to address the issue of where I think a lot of folks don't even know that this happens. You make an SSR server and you run your application twice. You run it once

 

Mm-hmm.

 

on the server and then you run it again on the client. People are like, I don't know, I don't think that's going to happen. No, that happens, like every time. Try to teach people a while and then no, no, no. But no, it's for realsies and trying to figure out how to... The problem there is that when you run on the client, there's a lot of time... depending on the speed of your client and all that to get to interactive. And so if you're running like an e-commerce site, oof, that's not great because like you really want people to be able to just click that buy button like right away, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right. And so this gets in that way and you and they're trying to figure out how to do it. So you got like React server components on the next JS 13. You've got Astro trying to like do these islands architecture. I think this is the year that we really kind of focus on that.

 

You just have to look back into our last few episodes,

 

Yeah.

 

right? Or the last episodes of last year, because I feel like this comes up anytime we talk to somebody working on a modern framework, this comes up as their features or one of the things they're focusing on. Like you said, the React team itself with React Server components is kind of getting into this game as well. But I think what we don't have quite yet is a winner, right?

 

No.

 

Like there's, it's sort of in that phase where everybody's just sort of experimenting and we don't know. what the thing that we're gonna consolidate on and the best option is, it's kind of in a phase now where the early experimenters are trying to sort of figure this out. So

 

Mm-hmm.

 

it's a good prediction because we don't know where the winds are gonna go.

 

Hehehe

 

And kind of adding on to that prediction, I think this year we're going to continue to see React be the dominant framework,

 

Oh yeah.

 

whether that is using Next.js, whether it's using Gatsby, whether it's using something else, but I think it's going to continue to be the biggest dog in the room. But I think that Svelte is also going to continue to gain popularity. It seems like I have been hearing nonstop about Svelte and developers jumping on that bandwagon. So if I was to hazard a guess, I would say that that would probably be another good framework to at least check out and try to build something with, just to say that you have. Because I have a feeling that more and more employers are going to start looking at that as a viable alternative. I think it's gotten to the point where with SvelteKit 1.0 being out, it's finally starting to reach that critical mass where people are probably willing to take a chance on it. and put it into production in a bigger way. So I think that's gonna be something that we see a lot more of this year.

 

Yeah, I think that's like the key next step is because I feel like Svelte and the other one that I had in my list was solid, which I feel

 

Mmm.

 

like

 

Mmm.

 

doesn't, doesn't have quite the momentum is Svelte, but it's kind of in that same, I'd almost throw it in the same bucket is like

 

Mm-hmm.

 

trying to rise up to, to become the next sort of react, but it's, it's, can it break through into like, like you said, like your big company ecosystem? Cause right now I feel like if you're building an enterprise app today, you're still picking. probably React,

 

Mm-hmm.

 

maybe Angular, maybe Vue.

 

Navy view.

 

I don't think Svelte is quite in that conversation yet, which is weird because framework-wise, I almost feel like, I mean, we both used it, Page, and when I tried it out, I actually preferred it over React, but then at the same

 

Hehehe

 

time, when that app was done, I kind of was like, ah, guess going back to

 

What

 

my

 

is

 

day-to-day

 

it with that?

 

React.

 

I have gotten into and out of spell so many times and every time I get into it, I'm like, dang, this is really, why don't I use this more? And then it's like

 

Mm-hmm.

 

back.

 

Ha ha ha ha.

 

Why I don't understand, but I gotta say, I tried out SvelteKit like a week ago and

 

Mm-hmm.

 

it was around like they have this forms interface. Essentially, you can have a form and automatically, just like old school, it posts to the server and then you can just literally put like an extra little tag on it and say, hey, this is gonna be client side. And

 

Yeah.

 

then boom, it takes, it's so cool.

 

Hehehe

 

Isn't it, Benjamin? It's crazy cool. And. I, you know, I'm just like, wow, I got, I wish I could use, I mean, like react just doesn't have that. And yeah. And then

 

Yeah.

 

it comes back to, to hydration, which is it's a lot easier to rehydrate an app that's, you know, 20 K, which is what your Svelte kit anyway, your Svelte app is going to be versus a Meg, you know,

 

Mm-hmm.

 

on the client. Right. And so, yeah, you want, that's what these, that's what's solid. And that's what Svelte get you is like crazy. Efficient. well, client code and also server code.

 

Yeah. I mean, I guess one of the things going to back to what TJ was saying about we use it, but then we, you know, walk away and go back into a Next.js application. It's for me getting to figure out how Svelte works was not the easiest thing. Like pawing through the documentation and trying to find, trying to figure out how to ask the right question has was always more of a problem for me. So I guess maybe I'm just more familiar with the way that React thinks about things, approaches things, and I was able to better find the answers that I needed quickly and with Svelte it wasn't as clear. But like you said, as Svelte continues to grow and gain popularity, there'll be more Stack Overflow posts, there'll be more just general tutorials that go beyond the basics, there will be more of those really specific use cases that we seem to run into. and showing you how different people overcame them. So I think that's a big thing that's gonna help push it forward is just more and more people trying to do really specific things, which is what we always end up doing as developers. It's not the out of the box functionality. It's always the really special little use cases and edge cases that we have to deal with that people haven't usually addressed early on in a frameworks life cycle.

 

Yeah, more fodder for the AI machine,

 

Right.

 

Let's see.

 

right? You know, more examples for chat, GPT,

 

Mm-hmm.

 

and Codex to nom

 

And

 

through,

 

co-pilot.

 

which brings us to AI.

 

Yeah,

 

You know, exactly.

 

big

 

that

 

one in

 

was

 

the

 

going

 

room.

 

to be it. I think we were going to get there eventually, but

 

Yeah,

 

that was the top of my

 

here

 

list

 

we go. All rows

 

is

 

lead to Rome.

 

Yep.

 

I feel like, well, Rome's an overloaded term in the JavaScript

 

Ha ha ha 

 

world too. Because

 

Hahaha!

 

I had that on my list too, but AI, I think like you can't avoid it nowadays in... Really, I was going to say the JavaScript world, but we can make that broader and just say the development world or the world,

 

world.

 

I guess. I guess in general, but I don't see how AI won't play a bigger role in our lives,

 

Mm-hmm.

 

especially just from a development perspective. Moving on, because I feel like this year we got a taste of copilot. When did copilot launch to the public? I feel like it was kind of early 2022. Am I remembering

 

Really?

 

that

 

It feels

 

right?

 

like it's been longer.

 

Well,

 

Yeah.

 

I'm trying to remember when it went from public beta

 

to pay.

 

to pay. Yeah.

 

Right,

 

And I think that that

 

yeah.

 

was, I think it came out actually in 2021, but maybe that was just the free beta test. And then 2022, they announced the new pricing rollout.

 

It looks like the general availability to developers was June 20. Oh, hold on. Now I'm confusing myself. Uh, June, 2021

 

Hmm,

 

was when it

 

well...

 

was a beta and then

 

Okay.

 

earlier, and then the middle of 2022 is when it became like a paid product

 

Got

 

sort

 

it.

 

of thing that they're offering.

 

and what

 

So

 

an exciting life it's had

 

yeah.

 

in a mere

 

Well,

 

year and a half.

 

So I think that was like our first taste as developers into the world of AI, but

 

Mm-hmm.

 

it's, it's interesting that even Copilot as a tool has evolved, but now it's starting to with chat GPT and these other tools out there, getting some competition in terms of what's available. And I'm curious what you two think, like how, how will it actually affect like our, our day-to-day jobs moving

 

Give

 

forward?

 

us a question you really want to see. Will it take our jobs?

 

Tch!

 

Right.

 

Hehehehe!

 

Will

 

Right?

 

machines finally take

 

Will

 

our

 

machine

 

jobs?

 

take our jobs? Exactly. That on page.

 

I mean, I really, I haven't played too much with chat GPT. I've read some articles about it. I've looked at it. I've kind of poked at it, but I haven't done too much with it. I, I would say that it's not going to take our jobs because that's what everybody always worries about in the first half. I think what it's going to do is kind of what frameworks and higher level languages have done for coding in general. You know, we went from having punch cards and doing, having to figure out simple calculations with computers to having frameworks and languages like JavaScript, like Python that made it less close to the metal abstracted away some of the really hard stuff, pointers and null exceptions and memory usage and things like that, that we didn't have to think about anymore. And I have a feeling that AI is going to take a similar approach. I think it will continue to do the stuff that we don't really want to think about so that we can actually get to the point of building the things that we want, whether it's web applications or e-commerce or VR. You know, I think it'll just take care of the things that we don't really care about doing anyway, so that we can do the interesting, fun, deep work that we like to do, which is when you get in the flow and you're just, you know, thing, clicking things together and it's working. So I don't, I don't think that we're quite to the point yet where computers are going to take over and write our code for us. I think it'll just continue to help us and make our jobs easier and make it, make it so that we can do even cooler things and build even more complex applications that can do more, you know, going forward. I like to be optimistic about that anyway.

 

No, I don't think it's coming for our jobs either because I think where AI really shines is when there are clear inputs and outputs. And so much of our job is very much in the nuance. And so I think it's going to be a while before those tools can approach what your average developer can actually perform. The biggest thing I'm finding is that increasingly, chat GBT is becoming an alternative to Google for me, in

 

Mm.

 

a sense.

 

Hmm.

 

Normally, maybe your workflow for like 20 years now has been if I have a problem, I go to Google and then I start sifting through Stack Overflow posts and more recently GitHub issues, right? And

 

Mm-hmm.

 

you're wading through all this stuff trying to interpret the different responses. I find that ChedGBT is just better at that. Like it sort of intelligently has already combed through all of that for me. And it's not perfect. Sometimes it gets it wrong. But I've been shocked at how often it gives me the right answer right away. Right. And I have something I can immediately use and it just, so in a way it's, for me, it's just like an efficiency thing. It's the same sort of thing with copilot. It's like

 

Mm-hmm.

 

typing something right in my editor. It saves me from going out and having to interpret 15 different stack overflow posts and try to find the one I need. It just gives

 

Yeah.

 

me an answer that's more often than not, like better than I expect it and might, might even literally be exactly what I need.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

So I asked ChatGBT, will you take my job?

 

D

 

And ChatGBT said no. It said that the interesting parts of software engineering were the novel parts that essentially you can't replace with things like debugging, or designing features, understanding complex systems. It just can't do. And that's

 

Mm-hmm.

 

the way I like to think about these things is just think at a practical level. Like, Hey, today one, we replaced, you know, Sally Smith and Joe Schmo with, you know, AI coders, like, what do they do? Like, how can they debug an existing bug?

 

Mm-hmm.

 

No, no, they can't. They can't understand the existing code base. They can't talk to product managers to work through. Like, I mean, There's this great meme and it's got like a one panel that shows like what we tell an artist and it's like a very, you know, I want something that feels like this and has,

 

I'm

 

you know,

 

sorry.

 

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then what do we tell an AI? And it's like very precise, you know, we want to, you know, princess with Ruby rings, blah, blah, blah, blah, right. Very concise, very exact. And that's the thing. Like, I don't know. I've got literal Jira bugs on the product and we're only have a title. Right? Just a title. There's no description. There's no comments. There's no nothing. It's literally just add this, you know, kind of thing.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

And it's just me talking to the PM and it's like, okay, I know what it is and she knows what it is. And

 

Mm-hmm.

 

there you go. That's all you need. How's an AI going to make hiding her hair that like it's,

 

Yeah.

 

it's impossible. And so, yeah, I don't see replacing senior engineers for sure. And I definitely see it. I see junior engineer still being a real job because that's What I think people need to understand why we hire junior engineers, which is an eventual effectively open up space for senior engineers to do more other stuff. You know, and to get those folks trained up on the team to be productive members of, you know, eventually grow into senior engineers. So like all of the stuff that we expect a junior engineer to do, like maybe 10% of that can be done by an AI. So no, there's still gonna be senior engineer jobs. There's still be junior engineer jobs. So we all kinds of jobs. Just be easier.

 

Yeah,

 

Easy

 

I

 

job.

 

see it. It's just like a new tool that we're going to have

 

Now...

 

available. And so like anything else, it's probably a tool you want to start playing with, in very much the sense that being a good Googler is an important developer skill, like knowing how to find information you're looking for. I feel like using these AI tools is going to be the same sort of thing. It's a super powerful tool at our disposal. And you're going to want to know how to use them because that's just going to be a part of our lives moving forward.

 

Mm hmm. Yeah, I think that that's a good way to look at it, TJ, you know, get your hands dirty, try it out, know how to use it, but also know the other skills, all the other skills that come with being a developer and be comfortable getting into those and learning them.

 

I'll say though, from like a design perspective, that like that could be far more interesting because I've like playing with some of these image tools. It's amazing how often, because you can run them multiple times, it's amazing how often you can get like say an icon that you need

 

Mm-hmm.

 

and just describe exactly the icon you want. It'll spit out 20 of them. It might spit out one that is exactly what you need for your app. It's not perfect yet.

 

No,

 

Mm-hmm.

 

yeah.

 

But there are far more clear input output for that sort of thing than there is with development.

 

Yeah.

 

So it'll be fascinating to see how that plays out.

 

Hehehe

 

And if you flip it on its head from fear into opportunity,

 

Yeah.

 

I think it actually, there's so much, oh, I showed you guys Mid Journey, which is this Discord

 

Mm-hmm.

 

server

 

Yeah.

 

where you can literally just go in there and start typing in, just give it a prompt, and it gives you some icons or whatever, right? It's great. I mean, I took Imagine, which is this Python. stable diffusion to app, you know, or command line and just wrapped it in a discord bot. And, you know, it was an hour's worth of work. And I had something that was 90% of, of mid, mid journey and mid journeys making a lot of money. Like they're, they're, they actually charge for that. Like they give you a bunch of freebies and then they, as you do, you know, you charge. And so, I mean, there's a lot of opportunity out there for. Developers to go in and say wow cool We can go and capitalize on this like I

 

Mm-hmm.

 

I could really easily see making an app that you take a picture your dog And it gives you lots of funny dog pictures for like five bucks, you know That's

 

I think

 

money

 

I think like I love turning it on instead of a fear looking at as an opportunity because there's so it's it's such an Under-leveraged thing like there's

 

Mm-hmm.

 

I mean I've used lens It was my pick on the

 

Mmm,

 

previous

 

yeah.

 

episode to generate avatar images That's just some developer was smart enough to say like hey What if we took pictures of someone's face and just like extract you know threw them into one of these AI tools you know, they didn't invent the that they're leveraging some other AI tool, but

 

All

 

they're

 

right.

 

charging for it on top of it. I gave them money. Lots of other people gave them

 

Hahaha

 

money, right? There's so many other app ideas, business ideas, right? Like

 

Mm-hmm.

 

think of all the, there's, other than Co-Pilot, there's very little, there may be no developer tooling right now. But imagine if you had a VS Code extension that could generate icon sets with AI, or could generate like... beginning library, right? There's just a lot that you could potentially do with this. So I think it's our prediction for 2023.

 

Yeah, I think TJ that Amazon is working on an AI assistant.

 

Oh, that's right.

 

And I can't

 

Yeah,

 

remember

 

camera.

 

what the name of it is, but I think that that might be one of the only competitors to co-pilot at this point. And we don't need, like you said, we can't even remember what it's called. So

 

Right, so Copilot

 

obviously.

 

is is Codex, which is open AI, but in this point, in this case, I think it's exclusively licensed from Microsoft.

 

Hmm.

 

So that's that I think Google

 

Yeah.

 

is also they've also got a coding AI, maybe it's released, maybe it's not, but I've definitely heard of it. So now yeah, maybe this, I would be surprised.

 

I looked at it is Amazon code whisperer.

 

That's

 

So

 

Alright,

 

you can,

 

it.

 

you

 

yes.

 

can build applications faster with the ML powered coding companion.

 

Right.

 

Uh...

 

Yes. Well, we'll see if Amazon Whisper starts to gain ground this year, I guess.

 

Hehehehe

 

All right. So let me ask you two, what do you think is the next framework that is going to be either open source funded or VC backed or acquired by a company? You know, Shopify bought

 

Remix.

 

remix. Netlify and React, or sorry, not Netlify, React and Next.js are pretty much one in the same now. So who's going to be the next one that either gets acquired or gets venture capital funding?

 

Oh man, who's left? Cause the rich Harris behind Svelte, right? He now works for Versel,

 

Right? Yep.

 

Yep.

 

which is kind of like acquiring in a sense, he's at least on their payroll.

 

Yeah.

 

And what about Ryan

 

Oh,

 

with

 

don't

 

a C,

 

scoop

 

but

 

me. I was

 

solid.

 

going to say solid start. Dang. Oh.

 

But what is he doing nowadays?

 

I think he's still, he's not, he haven't scooped yet.

 

Okay. Then yeah,

 

Yeah.

 

I think that's a pretty good pick.

 

Hehehe

 

Yeah. I think solid start. They've been talking in the solid world for a while about how like that's what you really need is you need a framework, right?

 

Mm-hmm.

 

It's not enough to have the view library. You have to have. All of it. You gotta have routing, you gotta have SSR, you gotta have SSG, you gotta have all that stuff, right? And, you know, I think... So now that's Solid Start for Solid. Um, wow. I mean...

 

Maybe Astro. Astro might get acquired by somebody. Um...

 

Mm-hmm, okay. I thought they were a company. I don't know.

 

They might have.

 

I do think it's funny that like so many of these things have been acquired that we're trying

 

Ha

 

to remember.

 

ha ha ha!

 

Which these frameworks have yet to be scooped up.

 

Right, right, right.

 

Huh.

 

Yeah, there just aren't that I mean, everybody complains. Ah, there's so many job, I just got very rich, I'm a good friend work to my every week, but they don't, they don't. I got and I should know I get random people like saying, Hey, I made this job is good framework, you want to go check it out? Oh, you want to make a video on it? And I'm like, Uh huh. Okay, sure. And then I go on to like the npm stuff. And it's like a 30 weekly downloads or whatever. You're like, okay, it looks good, man. You know,

 

Mm-hmm.

 

get a few more people.

 

So

 

Hahaha

 

Ryan from, Ryan Carniato is full-time working OSS at Netlify. So.

 

Mmmm

 

Ah, there we go.

 

I don't know if he still probably owns the rights to it, I would imagine,

 

Oh!

 

but...

 

Quick.

 

Oh.

 

Quick.

 

Oh yeah, I haven't thought about QUIC in a long time.

 

They kind of come and go, you know, these things, wow, we've gotten very flash in the panty when it comes to because remember bun, like bun was supposed

 

Yes?

 

to like take over the universe and everything. And

 

Mm-hmm.

 

it's like, I mean, I, my apologies to anybody out there who's like a total bunhead, but like, I don't think it, it realized on that dreaming currently,

 

Hehehe

 

but it's still cool. You know, these things just take time. But yeah,

 

Yeah.

 

I think quick has an again, because of hydration, it's all about Tell them about hydration.

 

So you go first, Paige.

 

Do you think that Mastodon is going to overtake Twitter?

 

No.

 

No. Nope.

 

Me neither.

 

Nope. I...

 

I wish them the best of luck, but for it to go mainstream, it has to be way more user-friendly and easy to get into. Cause I think it might take off in tech circles, just because

 

Yeah,

 

of

 

totally.

 

it's, I could see it becoming a niche that our people like us and our audience could totally start using. But

 

Mm-hmm.

 

as terms of like a social phenomenon, like Twitter is, I just don't see it.

 

You know,

 

Yeah.

 

what's the itch that Twitter scratches? I'm not,

 

shouting into the void, I guess.

 

yeah, I guess. I mean, it's just, it's not fun. I mean, I guess to me, like a Discord server where you're chatting with folks that have similar interests, I mean, it's

 

Mm-hmm.

 

very interactive, it's very there. You know, I think that's more interesting than shouting into the void and seeing how many people are like, whoa, that's great, you know?

 

There's too many voids to shout into now. You know, you have

 

Yeah!

 

the Facebook void, the Twitter void, Instagram, TikTok if you're young enough and on that, which I am not and don't care about.

 

Mmm

 

LinkedIn void. I mean, you just throw out something and there's people randomly posting and patting themselves on the back and talking about whatever. And I think we're all just mostly tired of that. Like I like

 

Yeah.

 

having conversations with people, but just... You know, there's not a lot of point to it, I don't think.

 

It's weird because probably, I mean, we, we talk about like advice for staying up to date on this podcast quite a bit. And

 

Mm-hmm.

 

one of the top things on my list historically was always get involved with Twitter. And, and it was because at least years ago, for me, it was the best place to keep up on news, to actually interact with people in the JavaScript world. And I feel like that's becoming less true.

 

Yeah.

 

At least for me, I find I get my news more from just a variety of places. Newsletters probably

 

Mm-hmm.

 

more commonly nowadays than Twitter. So I mean, I still use Twitter. I still kind of begrudgingly like using Twitter, but I feel like it's becoming less of a hub for the tech world in general.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

It's because it's all just hot take BS, right? And that's the thing. Like if you put out there something obnoxious, you're just gonna get a lot of views and a lot of likes and a lot of whatever, a lot of interaction, right? Love it or hate it, you're gonna get a lot of interaction, a good ratio.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

And that's not conducive to actually saying anything meaningful. That's just, you're gonna get what you're gonna get, right? That's the reward. I think you're totally right, TJ. Like... Like there are some really good react newsletters out there, subscribe to those. And they do

 

Mm-hmm.

 

a good job. And they, every once in a while, let's highlight a video of mine. So I'm always happy about that.

 

Hehehehe.

 

So, you know,

 

Yep, they like

 

go for

 

to shout

 

it. Woo.

 

your videos out, Jack.

 

You've been hot lately in the newsletters, Jack.

 

Oh

 

You're a rising

 

yeah.

 

Making

 

star

 

good content.

 

of 2023.

 

Woo! Ha ha ha! I hit 99,000 subs today.

 

Oh,

 

Wow, that's

 

nice.

 

So

 

awesome.

 

close! 7,000 away! Oh!

 

What are the milestones for the special YouTube plaques?

 

100.

 

It's 100,

 

100.

 

okay.

 

A hundred and a million.

 

Okay,

 

Yeah.

 

Well,

 

nice.

 

you're going to get it this month, no question.

 

I hope so. Very excited. Yes. Woohoo.

 

Ha ha

 

All

 

Can I get... Okay. Sorry, TJ. Go ahead.

 

right, I've got another one. This is kind of the flip side of what Page asked with acquiring and I almost wonder if the VC money in the JavaScript world is gonna start to dry up actually because we, 2022 is not the greatest year for VC funding and the markets and the economy just sort of in general.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

And it'll be interesting to me to see whether some of these companies that have taken on money that I'm not... still totally sure how they're making money.

 

Ha

 

So

 

ha.

 

I looked up a few of these, right? There's the big ones with like Versel raised $102 million, which at least they're well, either they have a hosting offering.

 

Yeah.

 

I don't know how they're making back that much money, but at least they have a product and they're pretty well used.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

But then you have Roam Tools, which raised like $4.5 million. You have Dino. which raised $21 million. And like, there's some other ones too that I'm probably not thinking of, but

 

Bun

 

I'm wondering,

 

raised seven.

 

which

 

one.

 

one?

 

Bun raised seven.

 

They did, oh my God.

 

It's

 

And,

 

seven, seven!

 

sad. I, I, I, I,

 

For Bun!

 

For Bun! Sorry, my bad, I, yeah.

 

I mean, maybe, but like, I feel like the money spout is gotta dry up here because I don't know how these

 

Yeah, I mean,

 

companies

 

what

 

Yeah.

 

do you...

 

like, like Vercell out of those, out of that list, Vercell is the only one that's got like a real thing that's out there and widely used and has some way of making money. The rest of these, like, how is that Dino, is it Dino Dino,

 

I think

 

Dino,

 

it's Dino.

 

Dino,

 

Dino?

 

yeah.

 

Has

 

Yeah.

 

Dino made a cent? Do they have plans for

 

I

 

how

 

don't

 

they're

 

know.

 

gonna

 

I

 

make

 

don't know.

 

sense?

 

I don't

 

Like

 

know.

 

I

 

I

 

don't

 

don't.

 

think

 

I

 

so.

 

don't mean I'm making a cent, but they, they've got a good product. Dino is actually really, really good. And the Dino Edge stuff is actually pretty, pretty cool. Um, I just don't know anybody that's like any big companies that have jumped on the Dino bandwagon and been like, yep, we're a Dino shop now. You know.

 

No, I hear some of the developers that I listened to on other podcasts talk about it a little bit, but Dino has been really quiet this year in general.

 

Mmm.

 

I don't know if they're cooking something up for 2023 and now this is gonna be their year to come back into the headlines, but for 2022, it didn't really seem like they were doing much

 

Well,

 

or at

 

they

 

least

 

added

 

releasing

 

support

 

a lot.

 

for no modules.

 

Okay.

 

Yeah,

 

So they're

 

that was

 

basically

 

their.

 

becoming another yarn or another PNPM

 

Ha ha!

 

or just another integration package manager. We can work with what already exists. They were trying to break away from that and now they've realized that they cannot be that on their own if they actually wanna get buy-in and usage.

 

Yeah, so they basically become like a node with the security stuff, essentially.

 

Haha

 

Which

 

Well,

 

is half the pitch.

 

the other thing too, like beyond that, beyond the usefulness of Dino itself, the part that really gets to me is, do they have it, like, how are they making any revenue whatsoever, right? Because even if you have a useful tool, I could see Dino starting to challenge Node. I don't think that's wildly implausible, but how are they gonna make back millions of dollars on this investment? Because I believe all they sell is hosting. And like that's so commoditized. I don't know, like why would you host with them? Like I just don't get what their actual business plan is.

 

Yeah,

 

Mm-hmm.

 

I think for the hosting, like the nice thing about Versal is that it adds on a lot of stuff. They've got

 

Yeah.

 

like a lot of like kind of connected bits, right? You know, they make you for monitoring and all that. And so that's it's a nice experience. I don't know if the Dino Edge stuff is like, OK, but Rome, Rome, I don't get it all.

 

Yeah.

 

Hehehehe

 

They're still going,

 

I

 

I think.

 

guess it was a

 

Now

 

thing,

 

we're gonna check on that.

 

right?

 

We're

 

Yeah,

 

not sure.

 

that's

 

And then

 

it.

 

I, yeah. The thing

 

Yeah,

 

is, sorry,

 

so,

 

go on.

 

oh, well TJ, I agree. I think that the VC funding is gonna dry up. I think that some open source software tools that we either use or we heard about are going to disappear quietly.

 

Hehehe

 

I think that we're going to see a lot of Web3 developers pivoting into different areas like AI. Crypto

 

Yeah.

 

is in crypto winter in a big way. Yeah, so I

 

Who

 

think

 

could

 

that

 

have

 

that,

 

seen that coming?

 

I mean, that, that it's been going downhill for quite a while, but I think we're going to see a lot of people continue to walk away from NFTs and crypto, everything and yeah, go find different niches of employment.

 

Yeah, yeah. I, crypto. Ha ha ha ha ha.

 

Yeah. Uh...

 

to say. It's definitely not that you're totally right. It is on its way out. And but I guess maybe I'm going to go in the wrong direction with this, but like, you know, in terms of general trends, but I do think that in terms of skill, you should try to acquire in 2023, I think. You know, learning CI CD, learning deployment. There's a whole bunch of new kind of novel deployment methodologies that have come out and it's, it's boring and it's blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

 

Hehehehe

 

But like from a company perspective, from an employability perspective, that's really important for those companies. Like, you

 

Yeah.

 

know, get out there, you'll let employee at edge really, really fast.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

And, you know, uh, all of

 

debug

 

that. And

 

your build pipeline and figure

 

like,

 

out

 

yeah.

 

why it won't.

 

Right, right, exactly. You know, actually there was, oh right, the Docker guys, kind of under the radar, they got some funding for doing a Dockerized version of CI-CD. So it was like specialized to that and you could,

 

Mmm.

 

you know, so you could run your CI-CD locally.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

and debug locally as opposed to like debugging through the CI CD on GitLab

 

Yeah.

 

or GitHub or whatever, where

 

Mm-hmm.

 

you see the never ending list of PRs. Now I'm trying this.

 

Yeah.

 

Now I'm trying that. Now I'm trying with this environment variable, you know, like, no, no, no. You get that all worked out and then you just put, you put it on the, on the GitLab or whatever and it works.

 

That would be cool. And

 

Yeah.

 

that would definitely be something that I'm interested in because I know I've wasted tons of build minutes trying to figure out why a build is not working correctly

 

mmm

 

in GitHub Actions.

 

Yes. I'm trying to think what the name of that thing was. I'll find it. Put it in the

 

Yeah.

 

show notes.

 

terms of if we want to keep the, the, how there are things to learn in 2023 going, I'll just add on another mention of chat GPT, just to say, if you haven't tried it yet, you really should. And I don't mean like you don't need to try it as in like, I'm going to use it to build an app or anything like that, but just get in and just start talking with it and seeing what it can do because it's. It's mesmerizing, honestly.

 

And

 

And

 

it'll

 

I think.

 

take a lot of the fear out of it, too. Because

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

it's mesmerizing, but also kind of limited, you

 

Yeah,

 

know?

 

as you start to push it, you'll see the limits of what it can do as well. And

 

Right.

 

it's a, it's interesting though, but you can, like I've started to, I've actually used it more for non-coding related things, like sometimes like, how do I intro this email? Sometimes you

 

Yes!

 

can ask Chet Chiviti

 

Yeah, yeah!

 

and it's, it's pretty good. It's scarily good at things like that too.

 

Yeah.

 

Or like from a DevRel perspective, like coming up with blog intros or titles, like

 

Oh,

 

It's like

 

right.

 

little things like that.

 

Yes.

 

It's

 

Hehehehe

 

Yeah, people

 

quite

 

were

 

good,

 

using it for

 

so.

 

like YouTube titles. And they're

 

Yeah.

 

just doing a good job on that.

 

Yeah,

 

Really good

 

like

 

job.

 

it understands patterns, yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

I was hearing that that's already become an issue for teachers who are grading papers.

 

짱!

 

There are already students who have figured out how to get it to write essays for them. So

 

Ha ha!

 

now it's not just plagiarism you have to deal with, it's did an AI do my homework for me.

 

Yeah, that's funny. Um, I will say somebody asked, like when I did my, my video around, you know, I asked chat GPT if it, you know, was going to take their jobs and said it wouldn't, and one of the reasons it would because of systems architecture and design and you know, person was like, Hey, did you ask it a systems design question? And I'm like, yeah, I did. And it actually gave like a classic senior engineer is answer, which was here's option a here's option B it depends. Like it didn't

 

Yeah.

 

even make these like totally equivocating. It's like, ah, I don't know, you know, for your thing

 

Mm-hmm.

 

could do it this way. It could be that no wrong answers.

 

Well, and that's another great reason why it won't end up taking our jobs is because there are so many ways to get the end result that you want. So, you know, you, as a developer will know how the rest of your application is built, how,

 

Right.

 

what, what frame of mind your team is in that's building it, all these different things that, that chat GPT just can't. So yeah, exactly.

 

Yeah. You know, yes, it.

 

Do we have any other things to learn in 2023 that we want to recommend?

 

Well, one thing that I've been seeing a little bit more of, and I would say I need to look into it too, is TRPC. And I know that we've touched on it briefly, but it seems like it's getting to be more popular, at least among the early adopters who are into that. So if you like TypeScript, if you like Type Safety, if you've used GraphQL before, it seems like TRPC might be another. new contender where it's a little bit less boilerplate, but it still gives you that kind of typescript feel to it. So, you know, it might be one worth actually looking into, even if you don't do anything too big with it, just to have an idea of what it is and how it works.

 

Yeah, it's like if, if rest isn't doing it for you, cause you got to go and make the manually make the type bindings

 

Yeah.

 

and graph QL is like, Whoa, that's a lot to learn, man. That's like a lot, you know, then TRBC is this beautiful mid step, which is kind of like, it's like, kind of like, kind of like rest, like what we use rest for generally, but, but it's very well typed and very easy to type. Which

 

Mm-hmm.

 

is great. If we're interested, we should bring on Theo. He's needed the T3 stack, which is like Next.js plus TRPC. I'm trying to think if there's anything on there. He'd be fascinating. And that's, yeah, that's cool. TRPC's

 

Yeah.

 

neat. And then

 

I'm going to go to bed.

 

if,

 

Bye.

 

again, going back to the video stuff, that one pretty good video that I did on it is blowing up over time, which is really weird. It started off really weak, and now it's like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. Everybody's into

 

I'm going

 

TRPC,

 

to go to bed. Bye.

 

and it's like, whoa, I should do another. Yeah, oh, VR. That would be my...

 

Mmm.

 

I actually, a friend of mine lent me a... one of the new MetaQuest 2 headsets. Thing's really cool, man. It's really cool. It's so much better than the old Oculus stuff. It's just, it's very nice. I don't know if you guys tried it at all.

 

No, I haven't yet. Not that

 

Okay.

 

one. I've tried, I think, one of the older Meta headsets, but not the newest one.

 

Yeah, same here. I've got one of the older ones. I don't have the new one. And it's cool to try, but I found that it didn't like hook me. Like it was,

 

Mmm.

 

I loved trying it and using it. And I played with it for a few days. And then now it kind of sits on the shelf because, I don't know. I find it's a big hassle to dig it out and

 

Mm-hmm.

 

put it on. And the thing I can only use it for like 30 minutes at a time because then. I, my head starts to hurt. I start to get nauseous.

 

Mm.

 

So like getting it out and dealing with it and then just using it for like 30 minutes is just a big deal. So

 

Yeah.

 

I liked it. I'm glad I got it and I tried it out, but I don't use it day to day anymore.

 

It's missing its killer app. Yeah. So let's go make it. Somebody should go learn VR and make it. But

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

the cool thing is, I'm going to show you how to make it work. So I'm going to go ahead and show you how

 

Yeah.

 

to make it work. And then I'm going to go ahead and show you how to make it work. And then I'm going to go ahead and show you how to make it work. And then I'm going to go ahead and show you how to make it work. And then I'm going

 

Hehehe

 

to go ahead and show you how to make it work.

 

I've heard the fitness apps in VR are quite good. So

 

Really?

 

Mm-hmm.

 

it'd be interesting to try that, yeah.

 

Yeah, I've seen

 

When you

 

that

 

get

 

you can

 

sweaty,

 

visit

 

I mean the whole

 

like

 

point is getting

 

anywhere

 

sweaty.

 

Yeah.

 

in the world too, which is kind of cool. Or a lot of places in the world, probably not anywhere yet, but a lot of places.

 

Yeah. I just can't imagine like sweating into my headset. Downward dog and your face. Just, oh my God. What?

 

Yeah, that's a good point.

 

Yeah. Fitness is a good thing though, take that up in 2023.

 

Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Yeah.

 

Any other picks, any other hot takes? Do we got anything before we move on to our own picks?

 

No, I think we're good. This is fun.

 

Yeah, I'd be interested to revisit this or write some of these down and come back towards the end of the year and see what actually transpired.

 

Cool. Well then why don't we head into our picks and Jack, do you want to kick us off?

 

Sure, I'm one of those people who really, I think a lot of us are, kind of beats myself up for not making the best use of my time and feeling like I'm never as productive as I should be and all that. And I was turned on to a book called 4000 Weeks and it's basically a productivity geek's take on how no productivity stuff works. And honestly... You're beating yourself up for the wrong reasons because you're because we created this culture of busy and there's no way that you can ever not. You can ever win that game. You know, if you ever, if you become the person who's hyper efficient and I've done this, you know, you, you get on top of everything, your inbox zero and all you, then people sort of notice and they just give you more work, you know. And it never ends. It's like in this never-ending cycle. And so it's been an interesting read in like how to kind of deprogram myself and give myself a break from trying to just relentlessly do the rat race and try and figure out what's important to me and spend my time on that.

 

Thanks a lot.

 

Nice.

 

Page, picks.

 

Yeah, so my pick this week is going to actually be something that I got my husband for Christmas, and if you've been

 

Hehehehe

 

listening for any length of time, you know that I am a big proponent of the adjustable desks. I love that

 

Oh

 

you

 

yeah.

 

can, you know, get them to stand up, sit down, even if you're not doing it for a certain length of time. Just being able to switch positions while you're working is really nice to me. So over Christmas, I found one, a standing or adjustable desk. that was under $200 from Amazon.

 

Really?

 

So it's called, yeah, it's called the Ergear Adjustable Standing Desk. Because I already have one, but my husband doesn't have one, didn't have one for his office. So I bought it, we assembled it, it took, I don't know, an hour maybe to assemble, because there's a bunch of parts, but after that it works like a charm. So if you're looking for one and you are not ready to invest in the uplift desk, which are very nice, but also quite pricey. I would definitely say check out what Amazon has because they have a lot more options than there used to be just in general. And I would definitely recommend this one for anybody who's looking for a nice entry point that's not too expensive, but is also, you know, you don't have to hand crank it or anything like that. It's

 

Right,

 

pretty sweet.

 

and you put your own top on it? Cause that's cool.

 

No, it actually comes with the top.

 

Oh,

 

So

 

okay.

 

yeah, all this stuff is included the legs, the motor, everything you just put it all together. We had got one with the black top, but there's one that comes with, you know, different colors of wood or what looks like wood. So there's some different options of sizes and finishes and stuff like that, but pretty good.

 

I'm a little bit jealous because I've got an adjustable desk, but mine is about a decade old at this point. So it is like this behemoth, right?

 

Hehehe

 

It's got this, like the tech for this has come a long ways in the last decade because my wife has one that it's just so much more seamless in terms of how it moves. Mine sounds like a jet engine is taking

 

Ah ha ha!

 

off when it goes up. But the thing is, once I have it in here, this thing is massive and

 

Mm-hmm.

 

like disposing of it just sounds awful.

 

Hehehe

 

And it does work, right? Like I don't wanna just get rid of something that totally works

 

Right.

 

either,

 

Right.

 

so.

 

Well,

 

The other

 

if you

 

thing

 

ever

 

about

 

do

 

it...

 

decide to upgrade, check

 

Yeah.

 

out what's available now.

 

Yeah. And the other thing you get into this whole weird area of the underside organization tools. So if you want to get

 

Yes.

 

like absolutely clean surface,

 

Yeah.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

then also adjustable. Then you got to make sure that everything is like anti-gravity. You know, like there's like these pans you can get and other things

 

Mm-hmm

 

that you can organize

 

little wire

 

all your wires.

 

baskets for cords

 

Yeah.

 

and yeah

 

Yeah.

 

that that did become part of his problem as he was setting it up was how to organize all the cords

 

underneath, right? Because

 

Yeah

 

those bricks are heavy, you know, the transformer

 

Yeah, they are.

 

bricks, and there's so many of them. It's like there's

 

Mm-hmm.

 

one for your screen and one for

 

Everything

 

the other screen

 

has one.

 

and everything's got a freaking brick.

 

And you gotta be careful too, because one thing that's messed me up a few times is all your chords have to be long enough that they can extend into like a full stand.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

And as someone who stands kind of tall, that becomes even more of an issue because the desk has got to get way up there. So, and when all your chords have to make it up that high, then good luck efficiently packaging them down

 

Yeah.

 

below. I've sort of given up on it.

 

What I do is I mount a power strip underneath the desk and then everything goes into the

 

Ooh.

 

Ehhhhhh

 

power strip and then yeah, there's got the one power strip cord going to the power.

 

That's a good

 

I need

 

call.

 

to have you over Jack. I

 

reorganize.

 

got

 

Yeah,

 

a task.

 

that when I retire from coding, I'll be the Marie, what is it, Condon or something like that of a

 

Marie

 

condo

 

Kondo, yeah.

 

of computer desks.

 

I'd

 

Nice.

 

watch that YouTube series.

 

That would be fun, actually. Yeah.

 

All right, my pick for this week, kind of boring, but AirPods Pro,

 

Hmm!

 

I got those for Christmas. And they're just the in-ear ones. And I think what has impressed me the most is how good the noise cancellation is for something that just goes in your ear.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Because I was used to that only being available. I never liked the over-the-ear headphones. It's just for whatever reason they bother me. So I love the initial AirPods, but I hadn't tried ones, the ones that have noise canceling in it. And I've just been impressed that it's... For something that's a tiny little thing in your ear, it works shockingly

 

Yeah,

 

good.

 

Yeah.

 

it makes such a difference on flights. You'll have to try that at some point, but it, boy, it really drowns out a whole lot of the engine and babies crying and all the stuff

 

Yeah.

 

that typically comes along with the regular flight.

 

Uh huh.

 

That was actually the main driver behind it because for the most part, I don't use noise cancellation. It's not

 

Mm-hmm.

 

very frequent that I... So I was fine with my original AirPods, but on a plane, man, it's just so, there's so much noise and you

 

Yeah.

 

just can't get rid of it. So...

 

Question for you. So how much eye gear do you have? How much Apple gear do you have? What do you have?

 

Oh, way too much.

 

Oh, you

 

Hehehe.

 

have an iPhone?

 

I've got an

 

Mm-hmm.

 

iPhone,

 

You have a Apple watch?

 

Apple Watch.

 

Okay, cool. So you can get these stands and I'll put a link. It goes like 20 bucks for a stand. Like it charges everything. Charges the phone, charges the watch, charges your AirPods. And so you kind of, you just take all that stuff off. Put

 

I'm

 

it

 

gonna

 

in

 

go.

 

next year where you put your wallet or your purse or whatever and you're done. Everything charges.

 

Yep,

 

Handy.

 

that would be nice for traveling as I've discovered because

 

Mmm, mm-hmm.

 

I don't like, I don't know, I'm fine with my separate chords because I've got them all set up at the house, but like it'd be nice to have just one thing to grab because traveling

 

Mm-hmm.

 

is always like, oh God, especially now with a full family, you go to travel and it's just like,

 

Oh yeah.

 

we have to bring enough stuff to charge

 

everybody's.

 

57,

 

Yes.

 

like the modern family travels with just this like

 

Oh my god.

 

arm, just absolute. ridiculous

 

Armory of

 

number

 

chords.

 

of electronics, yeah.

 

Right?

 

And every chord known to God,

 

Yes.

 

just, so.

 

Thank goodness. And finally, like, like a EU is like, nope, nothing but USB-C. We're done. We're done.

 

Yeah,

 

I'm

 

we're moving

 

in.

 

towards

 

Sold.

 

that.

 

I'm still waiting for my first hotel to have a USB-C port.

 

Yeah.

 

Cause I feel like they, you can always find the regular USB. Like they're always

 

Yeah.

 

in the clocks or the desks or whatever

 

Mm-hmm.

 

nowadays, but never see. I don't know, we'll waiting for the day.

 

Yeah,

 

Yeah.

 

but sometimes the clocks don't have enough amperage to actually charge anything. Like they just, they're weak or something? I don't even know.

 

Yeah.

 

Mess.

 

Yeah. It's

 

So

 

very,

 

you gotta bring your own stuff.

 

it's very random. Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Well, cool. This was a fun chat. I think

 

Yeah.

 

we definitely accurately predicted the future. I don't,

 

Absolutely, 100%.

 

you follow our advice, nothing can go wrong.

 

Ha ha

 

Right.

 

ha!

 

Start, bet everything on Svelte, start your new AI startup,

 

Yes!

 

get out of crypto. What was that? What other advice did we have? Get into CI

 

Learn CI-CD.

 

CD.

 

Yep.

 

Yeah.

 

Yep.

 

Excellent.

 

All good stuff.

 

Any last words for our viewers before we wrap it up?

 

Hope you have a great start to your 2023.

 

Absolutely.

 

Yeah.

 

Be healthy,

 

Happy

 

be

 

New

 

safe,

 

Year.

 

be kind, Twitch, all that.

 

All right,

 

I'm gonna

 

happy

 

go to bed.

 

new year. See everybody next week.

 

See ya.