Sascha_Wolf:

Hey, everybody, and welcome to another episode of Elixiamix this week. On the panel we have thought of all me. That's it. Ady and Ellen left me behind. I'm very sad, but we have a special guest this week, so I'm at least not alone and need to do a monologue. And that is Paul. For your avants of Paul. Why don't you tell people why you are here and what we are going to talk about today?

 

Hi, there, thanks for having me on the show. My name is Paul Furovanti and I am on Elixmix, because I recently did a a video called Build a real time Twitter clone with Steno using Live and Phoenix, One point six on your tube, where I use a stenographic keyboard to essentially do a cover version of Christ Cord's famous Twitter demo.

 

There is. that is quite something, Paul. I mean, it's super cool. but what is this story here? Like? how did you end up arriving there? Because I really want to hear about the journey.

 

Yeah, The journey started way before I decided to do anything with Alixe with, but it really just started with me wondering like going way back. You know, can I improve my quote typing speeds and I was looking for any kind of variety of ways. Whether that was now looking at Dvorak and coal, Mac, and and workmen you know, wanted to really Some kind of edge and speed and comfort when when spending long times doing typing, but none of those particular sort of, I guess keyboard important methods really ended up appealing to me, But then I stumbled across the open steno project, which so of introduce me to the concept of stenography, and so, for anyone that doesn't know in stenography, Essentially the process of writing shorthand, So you may have seen journalists sort of now with the small notebooks there, and they would sort of do these little scribbles there that would represent know, words and syllables, and what not. But now that's all that's all, sort of pen and paper stenography. But on a keyboard you do write stenography by sort of pressing multiple keys together in a cord, kind of like plan A piano. And so the output of those strokes can be anything from single letter word or multiple words, full phrases. And and so looking into that really appealed to me and I just decided to go and see all right. I'll learn this, and maybe it will help me out in my day to day work with writing slack messages and writing email and all the stuff that I didn't really want to do, And that then extended to All right. Well, you know, can I use this for coding? And and that then took me on another completely separate journey that ended up resulting in you know, my latest video where I attempted to build an up from scratch and Alixe.

 

Honestly. that's amazing. Like I did know about ten myself, because hers like a little tangent now because I'm also like bro playing game type, topproplaying games. To think d n d right and I also run those games and I was thinking maybe maybe I can learn steno to keep. my. Now I do know it's super quick right, Like what people are playing.

 

Yeah,

 

I ended up learning to be honest, But so that is my contact with it Doing doing Stan for on the P. C and doing it for like programming. That never occurred to me like never, ever. so. How long have you been doing this now?

 

I initially got into steno in about twenty eighteen, but I, so I went and did it fairly diligently and practice it for a year, and then I sort of fell off in twenty nineteen, but then picked it up again in twenty twenty, So you know, even though

 

Hm,

 

technically with steno, if if you're really diligent and you practise a lot, you can get up, you can get speeds up to two hundred or even three hundred words per minute. I'm literally nowhere near At. I'm probably at the moment approaching my my old quite levels of typing, which is

 

Hm,

 

maybe about eight eighty five words a minute, but probably one of the reasons why I didn't Well, I didn't end up focusing too much on getting my speed up, because I ended up devoting more time to figuring out. Okay, Is this going to be a hat? Was the possibility of me being able to use this as my daily driver, And you know, can I use this realistically

 

Hm,

 

for my work as a developer? And and what do? what kind of set up do I need to create in order to make that a reality? And that took me down multiple rabbit holes. But but they ended up being fruitful. In the end there were there were long and deep and dark rabbit holes, but ended

 

Uh,

 

up emergent emerging from

 

uh,

 

them. I think relatively successfully.

 

Kind of kind of this mental image of like alas falling into it all right,

 

Very

 

So

 

much like that. Eh.

 

yeah, I can imagine so maybe maybe let's focus on that and let's talk about. I can very much imagine using steno for something like writing an email, because this is kind of where, not maybe success ary writing an email. This is what comes from rewriting text, things said and spoken by humans, and putting them on paper or Case into a into a computer. How and if is using steno for programming different because I mean, just just take a look at Elyxio, For example, you, right, defmodual. that there is not even a word

 

Yep.

 

in the normal

 

absolutely.

 

English language. So so what is it? There is like, like the kind of a dialect of its own, Or how do I imagine what this is working?

 

Yeah. Also what I ended up having to do is, I guess there's multiple levels there, so you're right in that ten was all well and good for for just English language words. But then, of course, in coding we've got you know a bunch of symbols that we use. You know, we have, we have brackets. We, you have, you know lists.

 

Hm,

 

we have percentage science, and like all these other symbols, that, I mean, steno, keyboards are able to output all of them you know, using specific cords. but they probably a little bit More. I guess they're less used in sort of text speech transcription. Then they would be in coding. And so what the rabbit hole that that ended up leading me down into was the realm of snippets. And so know steno itself is kind of like snip it on steroidsyou. know us sort of pressed multiple keys at the same time and things can.

 

Boom magic.

 

a word or multiple words can just appear Out of out of nowhere

 

Yeah,

 

There And so, but you know, because steno isn't necessarily weird for being able to sort of go through. You know, like I guess a code block, or you know, a case statement and the you know, moving first to case expression, and then

 

Hm,

 

condition, and then sort of going through each, each part of that construct there, and put putting text in. I had to go and look for you. some other options there, and so know when it comes to snip it know A lot of developers will leverage their idea to help out a little bit with that. But now for myself I am Muser, and I needed to go and search for a library. And so I found one in the form of ultisnips. And and so what I did was that I went and and wrote a whole bunch of customer snippets for all the programming languages that I use. Elixer is currently the one I've got most flashed out,

 

Uh,

 

but in the end I mean now what I'm able to do then is to just you write certain trigger trigger words To then then, I guess create these programming constructs a lot easier. I mean, there are obviously vimsnippets themselves Like ultisnips are used by various people who don't use steno, but what they will tend to do is use sort of little demonic, You know, sort of know. I

 

Hm.

 

don't know, like two lettendemonics or whatever else. And so you have the cognitive, or I think that you have the cognitive overhead of having to remember all of these nemonics here. As opposed to what I can do with steno, is that I just have them as words because they are easier to understand words. They are just as easy to output on screen as any kind of nemonics there, because it could just be one or two steno strokes that can get me to the trigger word that I want, and it makes it I find You know at least when in it makes it a bit more and I have to show people the code that I'm doing it makes it a bit more a visceral experience where I can say things like Okay. I want to pretend to a list and I can write you Kprepend list And then those two people can see those two words There, turn into a list where it's like you know you've got you the first, the tale, Sorry, the head element, and then the pipe, and then you know the next element there, and I can Sort of like tab, stop through each of those its to edit. And and yeah, that sort of like it, sort of helps to bridge the gap between. you know what I'm talking about in plain English to what is being seen on an editing screen.

 

That makes a lot of sense to me, so basically maybe let me reiterate so basically how this works is like you. You kind of still use Stan to like, then write out words like preparntlist, for example, just under stand fashion, which then trigger snippets to make it easier for four for ours, special programming contracts to appear on screen right,

 

Yeah, that's right.

 

and and just one thing, I have to ask you, but you just said you use Because I'm a visor myself. but I mean, I used like a defultquaty out right to do my. like. How does him and Stan? How does that work together? Like Do you have it all mapped for different movements? Because in my head earlier when when you was saying stenoforprogramming, I was thinking it's kind of like like them only for writing, because Tim is also like this weird shorthand language for moving right through and through a document. So

 

Yeah, absolutely.

 

so how does this work?

 

I mean it works very well, I mean, I've got sort of my own custom dictionary that's sort of full of

 

Hm,

 

related commands, so they will sometimes just output. I guess just combinations of standard key strokes. Like safer example,

 

Hm,

 

You know one that I can think of is, For example, I want to change. You know the contents of a word inside of a pair of quotes. So you know, In you sort of say, see, I, and then you do like a double quote And so

 

Hm,

 

I have instead there just accord there that. So I wanted to say, change in quote. I want to do that in one stroke, So I sort of think in my own head that comes out instead of as like chote, And and then that then we'll just change everything that I want to quote. So this is sort of like. This is what you sort of hearing now as like part of like way of thinking, where you take these concepts and in order to sort of make them shorter and shorter and shorter, and so that you can stroke things you know in with just like one cord, you know as much as possible to make things quicker. Uh, yeah, so sort of abbreviate your thought processes. And and you know what you're what you're up putting. so I've got that. Of course. now he it comes to other vim Things. I've got ones that will. I don't know. Like if I have one that refresh my my ultisnips. If I make any changes there, I've got one that you know will sort within a block. I mean anything that you know you can do in with just like standard keyboard. You know you can. you can do. invent. It does then lead to, I guess, sort of like Stan. computer usage in general, where, by say, for example, the Oncept of saving. So I want to save something. And you know most most programs you know like I guess, like a control or command S hot key,

 

Hm,

 

as opposed to which is you know, Colin, W. And and so on, How do you disambiguate between all of that And so what I ended up needing to do? So I'm a mauser as well, and so I was thinking All right. Well, all I want to do is just remembe One cord. I want to remember the cord for save, and then I wanted to save properly, depending on what program I have opened, so get that context right And so I went looking for, you know, some kind of systems programming language. I wasn't quite sure if one really existed, and you know I ended up having to use in my case, Apple script. So I've

 

Uh,

 

got

 

uh,

 

and look. It's if I could use any other language then Absolutely would. But what I've got here at the moment is that I've got plover, which is the steno software that that takes my, my, my stenokystrokes and out puts them as English. I've got that has a very rich plug in system. And and so one of the plug ins there will allow you to stroke a cord that will then call a Shell script. So I was a call it to the Shell. And so what I've done is that I've got. I've got that calls out. Plover calls out to Shell script, which then calls out to Apple Script, Which then does its magic to its magic. It's stuff that will look through and see all right. Well, have you got them in focus? If so, then Colan, wif, You got

 

Hm,

 

any other anything else just to command or whatever? And so and so I created a whole bunch of those Apple scripts. There spent lots of time trying to figure out the idiosyncrasies of doing all

 

Uh,

 

of that, and you

 

uh,

 

wrote up a couple of blog posts about the Trials of doing that with certain things. But but what it means is that you, now. I now just don't have to worry about hot keys for specific programs. I just worry about concepts. I want to save something. I want to load something. I want to refresh something you. What does that mean you know? In the in each context I mean example, refresh, Like a specific one would be refresh. refreshes. Typically you, for webbrowses, you now Fresh and web browse. It's not too much else that you refresh, and it's probably safe to say all right Whenever I want to refresh. it's just like you control command are, But in the specific context I wanted to refresh my, The case for my control. P, Fuzzy, Find searching for when

 

Yeah,

 

you know.

 

Okay, makes sense,

 

Yeah, so that's like the only exception there, but it's always just the same as like, Just refresh and do whatever is needed when when Want to refresh.

 

But I love that to be honest, because it makes so much sense to me to say I have these concepts. We fresh, safe, whatever else, right, And I want to map them is intense and I want to map them to like a concrete program. I'm using it. It makes a lot of sense to me and also, it's kind of elegant in the way. But by by calling out to shirt script, which then quotes those upper script. Let's mean script is just the weapon of choice,

 

Yep,

 

but it opens up a whole door for automation. Also like so, If you had some, I want to say Hey, maybe I want to have like a higher level concept right, Like which, maybe does multiple things. that. Once you already have these building blocks and that's kind of beautiful. I love that because

 

Yeah,

 

I myself bit of an automization, Nord, I would say, but it doesn't go to these lengths I have. for example, I build like a little, very dirty and ugly, but for me it works Shell script around Git and fuzzy finder Fuzzy find, Git, Basically list all the file. It were changed, and I kind of kind of contact sensitive It up. attituvene moved from the end, Have short cuts right, So that is my my work flow When integrate gang. It's the super ugly gash, but does the job and it saves me a bunch of keys. strokes I would otherwise have to do. so I can very much sympathize with the idea there.

 

I think that's right. Whatever gets the job done, and

 

Yes, exactly

 

in my case, as a Mauser Apple script the job. Anyone who is listening to this has a better idea, particularly cross platform systems language. You know that that could work in the situation. Then I'd love for them for them to reach out to me. I'd be more than happy to rewrite what I've got to be more sharable to to more than more than just mak uses.

 

Yeah. I guess at that point is also very nice, right because I mean at the end of the day it might be some accessibility software could be help helpful here, maybe even kind of a screen reader thing. But then at that point you get tokaylike, you also want to use it with him, which is like again a niche, and it get into the niche of a niche of a niche

 

That's right at this. At this point it's niches all the way down.

 

All the way down. Indeed. Okay, so just to to to like clarify this like you have to your steno key board, right? I don't just presume that you're using it with like a default quality key board, right,

 

That's right. So when it comes to hard, were initially started on on an Urgodox easy keyboard. And so

 

Hm,

 

you know, that's now commercially available keyboard. and now it's used used mostly for for just standard keyboard. In put it, it's a quirt keyboard through and through, but it is built. The firm were that it uses is quantum Mechanical keyboard. Otherwise now as Q, M, K. And and that Is some open source firm ware that enables you to that has firmware for a whole range of different keyboards there, and allows you to customer your our keyboard firm, where for how your brain thinks, rather than some some product specification, That's really great and it has support for stenography, So you know when I first started, I didn't have a stenographic keyboard, just Just had the ergodoxan, so I've created this stenography layer in my, in my firm,

 

Hm,

 

where there that know allowed me, allowed me to switch between quirt, then back to back to steno again as I needed. and so that enabled. A basically reduced the barrier to entry. where basically you now anyone with a key board, so like key, roll over keyboard, where where Your keyboard can recognize a key like simultaneous key press for however many keys that you've got on the board, which is needed for stenrecording. If you have one of those keyboards, then you have the ability to be able to give Stan try. So you definitely encourage you know anyone, especially mechanical keyboard nods, especially you. absolutely go for it. It probably be a little bit more difficult for commercial keyboard Uses because they, they will potentially be limited to maybe six key roll over. That's kind of standard there. so so yeah, if you have keybordand you want to give it a try, Then there are there are many different options there for you. If you have a staggered lay out sort of where the keys are diagonal, then then you have the open. There is the chance to to get something called stenokeytopers, Because stenoecording is all about, You know. pressing multiple keys together, you want to have you know the keys themselves in a auto line, or like straight, sort of pattern as much as possible. And and you also want them to be close together so that you can use your fingers to press multiple keys at the same time. And so that's why the Orgodoxis, a great candidate for this. It has an author line lay out and it makes it so easy to stroke multiple keys. And And so so yeah, just reduce the barrier. You can. All we have to do is just download the download. The software. Give it a try, and you're off. It's also really handy if you have. I guess very flat key caps there. So when I had my my, I still had my original ox, but when I first started I had I guess molded key caps, so there's sort of certain muldikeycaps that are different for each row of your keyboard that make things a lot more orgonomic Use for your your key presses. And so I found that cording those together didn't really work so much, so I had to sort of switch them out for just now key caps that were as flat as possible. and and then that made things a lot more comfortable. So so yeah, there is. there is some preparation that that you know, definitely need need to do if you want to take it seriously. But, but I think that, No, much like all of the rabbit holes and all the all the niches all the way down that we reference before. If you just want to get started and and sort of have a play around, then there's no real barrier for you to do that. You can just go to the Open Steno Project website, and you can download the software called Plover, install it on your machine, and and then you can just get up and running and have a bit of a play around with it, And I have got There are multiple resources to do that. I have a couple of blog posts around, getting started with stenography, in my case, specifically for an urgodoxs, but I also did a guest blog posts on the The Zed A blog, as being the company that created, created and sells the Rgodox Easy, the Plank Easy and the Moon Lander keyboards. So I did guess blog posts there, talking all about stenography and how You can get started with it up and running, and playing around, and even using, or they have a special tool there, which enables you to use a go to create your firm ware and and down loaded, without having to delve into the the C code of Mc. So

 

Hm,

 

typically your web, you're not interested in sort of going down to the bare metal and medal of programming and writing C Laying key maps. Then that's that's definitely a tool that helps reduce that barrier to entry.

 

Wow, like as we said earlier, rabbit holes where it holes rabbit holes. but seriously that I'm kind of impressed. Like how was there in any time? like in your personal journey at the point where you said M done. I don't want to dive into other rabbit hole. Or was it always fueled by like where I was interested and enthusiasm for for stenography, because I could very much imagine, since we kind of talked about niches of nichestoff, She is right that you can come to a point where you say no. I'm just going to stick to my old way of doing things.

 

Yeah, absolutely, I mean. it happened when I first started. I guess After

 

Hm,

 

after getting into it and really doing a deep dive back in twenty eighteen, I just kind of fell off a cliff in twenty nineteen, and and I didn't touch it at all, I completely forgot about it, and and then when I picked it up again with renewed vigor a year later, and and that was sort of as a result of being being nudged by some people in the community, Which was which was really nice for them to do. And and I just went and gave it and try it again, and I guess set a specific routine for me to really get back on it again. So

 

Hm,

 

dedicated time for practicing because you know what I've talked about before what I just talked about with regard to setting up. You know, Love the software on your computer and sort of getting all your configuration set up. Debs. love to do all that kind of stuff. But then you know, once you've got everything up and running, the hard part is actually then learning stenography and the discipline to sort of keep on going and practicing it. You know, even if

 

Kind

 

it hurts

 

of

 

you

 

we've rarin

 

every

 

your

 

day

 

brain

 

And

 

right.

 

so that's right. Yeah,

 

Okay,

 

So and that's what I needed to do in the end and really, just you know, I ended up writing writing all of my prac Sessions inside of a log to sort of give me that that small dopemene hit when I could sort of see you know, over the days and the months where you know I had, I guess speed improvements or what, not, but, but that was really necessary for me to get to a point where I could confidently then remove my quota keyboard from my desk. That was actuall Only at the beginning of this year. Twenty twenty three, so I'veatually been doing, I guess a hybrid work model where I had my my stenographic keyboard in front of me like the whole time, and then the ergodox was sitting just behind it in case I got to the point where it was just like I can't. I can't deal with stand at the moment. I just need to focus on this quoting problem, so I sort of switch back to quote, Go back and forth and back and forth and then you know, but as a result of you having some accountability buddies in the In the tent community, you, no one particular person who had, who had read what I'd written about it and had gotten into Stan that way, was telling me that he had just got on full time, Stan, and gotten rid of quote. He was a quodosort of, like a low level systems programme. And and he said, I'm just using it full time, and I'm like Okay, If you can use this full time, then I think that I should. I should at least give this a try. and so starting at the beginning of To twenty three, I just went called Turkey. I plug the ogodox.

 

Oh,

 

I put it away like I just taking all tempt. All quirtytemptations were removed from my desk and I was like All right, I am just going to. you know, grit my teeth bear through this. To be honest, I mean, I've done enough preparation. you know, getting my various dictionaries full of coding related stuff in order that, but you know, I only took a short amount of time to adjust, But that is, of course, you know, after a year or two of constant practice and preparation of the all of the coding related stuff that that I use every day. But yeah, it was just kind of like you know, setting the raft adrift and now I'm just never looking back.

 

That makes a lot of sense. and also, as it sounds to me like you kind of build layers, so to speak, it like your first startle stener, in general, like maybe starting if the English language, for example, writing things out like having the set up or can have to pluck in it like a king of the slippers. It have like a web. I would assume pole work flow there to add new slippers, potentially right, and have that sorted Ut, so that you can then kind of build the programming Lang, Which, so to speak, K, stenographic thing, So like you, build a kind of like building building, building a building here one level at a time

 

That's exactly

 

Ought,

 

right yet.

 

It kind of reminds me of like on a very much lower level when I first started out doing em right like the first time. How do I move

 

M.

 

it some way,

 

hm.

 

but you, You kind of have. You, kind of have to grit your teeth and get on with it And then at some point like this, this is kind of nice and now, every time when I'm when I'm colleagues laptop, for example, and they don't have to, I was like, No must memory. I'm typing

 

Yeah,

 

things I don't want to type. So yeah, maybe maybe to that have. Can you still type Cet Use if you learned to In degree?

 

Oh, I mean, so I think that they use different sections of the brain to be honest, so quote

 

Okay,

 

is still absolutely

 

okay,

 

fine. I mean, I have to use the the keyboard on my laptop. You know when I don't have access to a stenokyboard

 

Fair enough

 

or, or I'm just now using using it on the couch, or or whatever, else, But I think that steno to me isn't a replacement for. quite in that way, It's It's too far removed, Doesn't feel like

 

Makes sense.

 

you know Elective quote that you know, I could then potentially get muddled in my head To me, It's sort of man. I'm not musical, so I can't. I can't play any sort of instruments or anything like that, so I can't say whether it engages. You know the brain in the same way that it does that a like musicians do. so. I hear that lot in the community where a lot of people say that it's like playing a musical instrument, but for me it was more it engaged. The. I guess I felt like it eng The areas of my brain around learning a new human language. So

 

Hm.

 

you know, it felt like having to learn all this. You know, these gramma patterns again, these specific words. And and I just ended up sylowing itself. Other part of my brain. I never really got confused between between steno and inquit at all. It was just like a completely completely different concept.

 

That makes a lot of sense.

 

Yeah,

 

That makes

 

but

 

I

 

having

 

actually

 

said

 

do

 

that, though

 

play

 

I mean much, much like when you go and learn languages, what you were saying before about the H. you mentioned. Oh, I'm forgetting now.

 

Learning

 

Uh,

 

them

 

yeah, learning them. But then, so the muscle memory? So you mentioned

 

Muscle, Maria.

 

muscle memory about the? Obviously, When you start learning Wimin, You have to learn all of it, all of the the letters and essentially the language. You know. How do I do what I want

 

M,

 

to do in and it's really similar with with. I mean, you have to. In order to build muscle memory, you have to take yourself to the gym. and that gym

 

Exactly

 

is

 

yeah,

 

basically just practice practice. practice. It can be drills. And and now sometimes you know you don't like it. You really just have to budget this time to say it. I'm going to

 

Uh,

 

take thirty minutes an hour or whatever,

 

uh,

 

and just do this very Focused time. You distract yourself with music or podcasts or whatever, else. But you know if you put in that time then you know you will reap the benefits later on.

 

Yeah, A one hundred percent I can want to pilate. I'm also getting to a point where I try to integrate them into other parts of my life. like in general, when I write documents. I just enjoy doing that with them. You gave keep urnings, because every time I now get to a point where he in a document where I can't, even. I've always I want to move there. I can't. It's getting getting annoying to that degree, so I can very much sympathize with Reflect

 

Yeah,

 

with muscle

 

I can.

 

memory

 

I can.

 

and

 

totally,

 

end.

 

I can sympathize with wanting to basically take a tool that you love and wanting

 

Yeah,

 

to put it into as many parts of your life as possible, and I've sort of done that with Stener as well. I mean, I went down the rabbit hole of you. How can I use for coding? And then it was a case of all right. Well, what else can I use to four and I thought it well, maybe I might try using it for gaming. Can I use it to game you and

 

Oh,

 

Willet?

 

wow,

 

Can it be used for anything else? aside From you know, like typing games or whatever that would know? Typing games is kind of an obvious use case for it. but but one use case that I didn't expect to have happened was the ability to be able to play Doom, a classic Doom from Nineteen ninety three. So there is a mode for Doom called Typist, which basically turns Doom into a typing game. And so you know, whenever you encounter an enemy, sort of a word appears on top of its screen there And then you type the word to to destroy the enemy there, and I decided All right. Well, what can I do that you know with steno, And so I ended up going down that rabbit hole. I wrote a whole bunch of like specific gaming firm ware for my stenographic key board to

 

Uh,

 

be able to make sure that all

 

uh,

 

right I can, so that I can you know steno as well as you know. Switch back between. I guess Quite so that I can move my character around the the map, Because you obviously know there's more. There's more than just typing. You have to go and find the enemy's And and then you know when you encounter an enemy, you kind of, at least in the type of mode you get frozen into into place, while, while you have to type it out, so on a quite keyboard, you don't have to worry about you switching mode or anything like that. You just kind of freeze into place. Type the word destroy the enemy, and then you move on, but with with Sin, there are Modes there, So have to you. I had to consciously switch between know, quote, keyboard mode on my key board that where I could move around and then back to steno again. And so so I had to do a whole bunch of firm were tweaking to enable that to happen. And then I thought that doing this with my now with my hands constantly, especially because doing, trying to figure out like how, the type of work when you've got like these enemies bearing down on you is just kind of like, like, very Full, and so and so I ended up bringing in a foot pedal to my work flow there, so I

 

Uh,

 

ended up

 

uh.

 

getting getting one, and when I would press the foot pedal, it would sort of switch between stenamode and keyboard mode. Sent me an cording mode so I could go back and forth between you know, moving character around and typing. And, but yet it made Doom tremendously fun. I've made. I've got a video on on you tube of me doing the first episo Of the the original Doom there, and I'm hoping to do more to sort of show people the the abilities of ten to be able to do gaming, and sort of once I've had my fill of doom. I'll see if it can how applicable it is to other games as well. We'll see.

 

That's amazing. Seriously. That reminds me on This is this guy which played Dark Souls on an gitahirogita,

 

I think I saw

 

So

 

that year.

 

so kind of getting the same direction right. but this case it's nother gitarogita, so yeah, that's that's pretty neat. so honestly like just laid out a foot ball. At that point it really does. How like like, Like Playing playing music against the rent Right, because I mean you also started to. It's kind of like cords, pars multiplicisive ones. So for one thing, which popped now into my head is like a thing, especially in the tech industry and among programmes what we talk about is like health, like keyboards, right, and like you, Kind of the movements of our fingers is not really a natural thing to do So you can get stress

 

M.

 

injuries. Is the better there than of something which is just more suitable Why we use a our hands. Or is it is this the kind of a T, same,

 

I mean, I think it's quite economic. You now, more than perhaps, obviously, Quote being the know, the nineteenth century lay

 

Hm,

 

out that it is now was not necessarily made for efficiency. You know, you do, your fingers do a lot of travel, and you know you only have the option of pressing each key. Press will only garner you a single letter and so was opposed to keep, as opposed to sin keyboards where you know is the signific. The less keys on there. there's only really two rows there and you can think of it as your. your fingers don't essentially really leave home row. Like so home, Want keyboard on a quite keyboard Is obviously, you've got your index finger and you put them on. And and you've got a d. f. and then the Jjklsemicoland. That's your home road. But instead of actually, it's actually the the cracks between two rows Of keys, And that's basically where your fingers stay, and they don't really move too far from that at all. There's no real stretching. Maybe

 

Hm.

 

on your, your right hand needs to stretch occasionally to get some of the the keys at the the end of listing. Keep it on the right hand side. but compared to what is done in inquirity, the Str And on your your hands is significantly less. You know. I found that that you using steno for longer periods of time is significantly less taxing on my hands than the using quote for an equivalent amount of time at the same speed levels. So you know, for anyone who is looking for an alternative solution for preventing couple tunnel, or for just mak, They're typing Experience a lot more pleasant. then, I definitely recommend you having to look into it. I mean, that was actually one of the reasons why I looked into you way back when sort of got into mechanical key boards in the first place, and I was like Okay, My my shoulders feel like the sort of scratched in together using a standard quite keyboard. So I wanted to split keyboard, And so that's where I found the urgodox, And you know, and I wanted to keep that split. You know, that slit sort of keyboard, Not esthetic, but the but the set up, and so the the key of the stenokeble that I have. it's called the George, That is also a split keyboard as well, so it means that you now I can keep my shoulders in a nice neutral position and keep them relaxed. And and then combine that with very low travel time for my fingers, means that extended coding sessions don't don't cause me any real discomfort that I can think of at the moment.

 

That makes a lot of sense. Do you still use a mouse like when interacting with a computer? Because I mean now we've basically you spoken about cool coding, right and writing documents and sorts of. But for interacting with your computer, do you still have a mouth there? or is this also

 

I do.

 

stand out the way?

 

No, I haven't been able to do that. So my, one of my. obviously, when people start using em, one of their objectives is to reduce usage of the of the mouth

 

Yes,

 

and

 

yes,

 

that's

 

eh,

 

that's exactly what I wanted to further do that with snow. But but it wasn't completely possible. I mean to have my. I have my mouth sort of sitting in the middle between the two halves of my keyboard there, and sort of

 

Okay,

 

have a Pro point mouse, so it's like a little little tiny mouse is like pen grit mouse, so it doesn't really take up very much room. but I try and use it now the least amount as possible. you know, try and control my key board. control my computer with steno with cords. Any time that I feel like there's somewhere that I can use steno in place of a mouse. I will usually try and investigate a way to do that If anyone has a look at at my sort of Alixe video where I re create the No Curb app and then also where I've got another similar video where I recreate like a Ruby on Rails blog, H, h. S. demo. For that I consciously made those demos to use to either not use a mouse or just use the least amount as possible. So basically you know, any any time I would use a mouth like a safer example. If I needed to, I don't know. Click on the the address in a web browser. You know, there is a hot key to do that, but I would tend to know, I would tend to reach for my mouth to do that typically, but I decided I have to try and break that habit, so I went and created a cord that would go and and go and select that for me, So I do actively look for ways to reduce mouth usage. Not possible for me yet

 

Hm,

 

And that's okay like I do. I don't really mind like I'm not anti moth or anything like that, but you know I certainly do want to keep my hands on my key board as much as I possibly can.

 

It may make sense to me. What actually do you do like? I just have this example right like I want to reach for your mouth. But then you say okay, Maybe let's let's have set up in a new court for this, For example, to openings like, like one of the steps, You then kind of go go through this There something you do with Plvaltposib. The name for the orsofritor is the. Is there something else involved there?

 

Yeah, love correct. so so say, for example. With so I've done a bunch of. Let's see what's a good example. Well, I guess that with what we were just talking about with selecting the the web address in the

 

Hm,

 

in the webbrowser, I would look at it and go Okay. this is a potential for me to create a cord here. So what am I actually doing here? And so for that one in particular, it was a case of Okay, I am. I want to click In the address bar and and select all the text there. So how a good cord for that Like what should I name it? And then I would sort of have look at the stenokeyboard and it's like a hat. words at one word stroke. Can I think of for that and just came to me light address bar and okay, Can I type? Can I write address bar with just one stroke on my stnokyboard answer? That is no, Okay. So then I want to sort of compres That together, you know, While still you know in a way that makes sense on the stinopeople. So it came ended up being like debar, So you know, at rest and then bar. And so that was a way for me to remember it and able to stroke it. So I would just basically like open up my tent dictionaries, which are all by default, they're all Jason files. But but I tend to like to keep all of mine My cord documentation with the you know with the entries themselves, so I've actually got a love plug in The allows all the cords to be put in a mark down files, so I would open up

 

Hm,

 

my files there, and I would say light, I want to cord you debar in this case, and then I want to then go and assign it to the hot key for for a web browser in this case, And then I would You then go and refresh my dictionaries and then give it a try. And then then that would be it. Then push it up to get up.

 

Okay,

 

So so you know, I have all of my. all of my steno dictionaries are all up on Get profile, So if anyone else decides that they want to go and and try stenofor themselves and looking for ways to be able to use their computer, or use ten for coding, then I've tried to make every In that I have created as as open as possible and is usable as possible. So but yeah, I mean, that's it. And so that was, I guess a very simple, you know, use case where I didn't have to do anything more complex than then. Think of a cord that would work and then map it to a specific hot key. So there's no text out. Put there. it's just Ike. Run the hot key. What's more complicated is what we then talked about. Before you know the concept of save, then it's like Okay, We'll save.

 

Yeah,

 

It's different depending on the context than that's where Apple script comes into the picture.

 

That makes that makes sense to me. I'm honestly, I feel like I could could talk about this for ours, because I find it so fascinating. I I always wonder because a lot of, as you said earlier, a lot of the things we now kind of we interact with technology That has like just this leg, like its legacy origin right, I mean, like the lay out quatlefor. my understanding is coming from type writers and this is kind of optimised to the don't jam hat is my understanding, obviously, but it's not a problem in, But still that is like this legacy we have here so always always always did wonder like if we could re image, and how we interact with technology. Nowadays how what I look like, and honestly, from what you've been explaining to me so far doesn't sound like the worst kind of it.

 

Yeah, I mean, even even without steno, mean the ability to re. imagine how you want to interact with technology. You could be as straightforward is just going, and you know, rejiging your your firmware if your, if your keyboard supports

 

Hm

 

it, I mean you as a developer, don't have to just be content with. You know what you've been given. You have the ability to go and change things in there and you know, even if you wanted to try out cording, Like say, for example, you know you can do that, Would say M. k, an, even if you don't, if you have no interest in ten, there is a way for you to be able to do things by pressing multiple keys together in. they're called combes, so go and go and check them out on the Q. m, C documentation. if you're interested, but know they will then enable you to do stenostyle cording without actually having to worry about the doing stenaatall. But but yeah, look, there are. There are many different Is that you know we can help ourselves improve our work flows. And and yet it just basically takes the desire and the will to spend the time to go and do this and know for myself it was a case of this. this, and I just sort of set my brain on fire and and I was like, I just I love this. This is amazing and I want to know more. I want to do more. and I just you know. Want to you know? feel like that. I guess, Make coding add another element of fun to it.

 

That? Yeah, I can very much sympathize with that. I mean, because O, something like this you don't do unless you, you enjoy doing it right like it needs to tickle your brain in the right way.

 

Yeah, and I mean that's what I'm That's what I'm sort of hoping to do with with some of the content that I'm creating, you know with with these videos of the creating the Phenix Ap, creating the rails at, But you know

 

M.

 

I want to be able

 

hm,

 

to show developers that you know there are ways that you can do things differently And there there is this option available and it can do cool things. And so you know us as developers. You know, we like cool Shiny things, and so

 

Uh,

 

I'm sort of hoping

 

uh,

 

that maybe that you know stenography in the community could end up being maybe the next new and shiny, and and encourage people to give it a look and see if it resonates with them as well.

 

How big in general would you be saying that? Like the tech and programming niche off steno niche? is there something like? Is this like a like a bigger niche inside of ten? or is it still very much a select few individuals? So to speak,

 

I think that sort of traditional steno. So you know, court reporters and captions. There's

 

Hm.

 

very few programmes know inside of that nice, though inside of that nice, but within the open steno community there is a lot of programmes and hardware, tinkers and hackers and software programmes. And and so the community for Plover congregate At the The Plover Discord, And so you know, if you, if you're

 

Okay,

 

a discord user, and you like it then and you're interested in seeing what stenography is all about, And you want the ability to be able to go and ask people questions. Then I would highly recommend you know. joining the community there. They are very welcoming and they have all sorts of people there, including plenty that are deeply technical. I mean there are there are people there that have. They're the ones that write the plover plug ins that I use on a daily base. They're the ones that create the boards for new and innovative stenographic keyboards. So you will, you will find you as a developer will find your people there as well. And and so you know, there are specific channels on that discord that are dedicated to to technological use of. Still, whether that is you know, Cod, Or hardware, hacking, or whatever else, So you know it is. it is there and is it is a small. small is community at the moment, but I think that at least from what I've seen over the last few years, it's ever growing as people sort of trickled their way through And and you know you know, find Senor, or they encounter it somewhere and then they come in and they start asking questions and then you know all of a sudden there are contributing back to the community in some in some way And it's it's really great to see,

 

That's amazing. Seriously. that also sounds like like a fun place to be around if you're like, if you're into, Like digging your teeth into this topic. Um, I have to have two more questions I want to ask before I may be. Also, we can come to the end of this and that this one is. Do you feel there are some programming language which are easier to stand than of us? So like, maybe I don't know. Like, is there elixialikewhat Key words easier to stand on than see or rust? Or is it? does it boil down to the same same kind of finding your finding your courts, finding your snippets,

 

So I think that they would really be all the same. I think that because I guess if you were not going to use a layer of snippets like the Vmsnips that I

 

Hm,

 

mentioned previously, then there's then probably how hard it is to import would be dependent on you know how many special characters and symbols

 

Hm,

 

would be used within the language there. But you know if you do use a Ere snippets there, then ultimately just becomes irrelevant because the snipes will just write most of this. most of it all. For you, you know all of Oukowtheif construct case constructs, or just you now, modules, or whatever else you know. You can just have delegate off to the snippets, and you have have, Ave it right. Have write them for you, so I'd say that it's kind of like a great equalizer In that. In that respect, you know all of I have to be honest, like I haven't really done Much steno. See coding because I haven't gone and written an extensive library of snippets in the same way that I have with Alexa. But you know there are other repositories up on get hub people that have, And so you know they, for those ones. I mean, they just use snippets within the monics or what not. But but you know, for me it would be a case of Look if I want to write If I want to write. Switch, if I want to write Case, If I want to write, whatever you know, the sippers or ultisnips will expand that particular word into the right programming construct for the language that I'm currently using, So so honestly, I think it would just end up being all the same. That's not something that would would concern me whether one language is easier to stand than another. However, having That the only two languages that I have done so far, you know, Ruby and an Alix, And so I'd like to do more in the future and create a set of snippets for other languages, so I will probably just put a pin in that question for now, and and

 

Uh,

 

maybe answer

 

uh,

 

that at some point in the future when I have more experience stinowing more languages.

 

A challenge. not still now in and brain funk.

 

Oh, no,

 

Yeah,

 

Uh, Oh,

 

I be a video I would like to watch to be honest,

 

That would just be like Steno part steno programming party tricks. I think

 

And then decay the last, but not least question is like, how would you suggest people to get started? And maybe like, like a similar phrase, Question, like if you could give your past self some advice right, Like what would that be? So? If people like, listen to all of this and feel heavistand, super interesting. what or something you would suggest to start with at something you would give them on their way Is like advice.

 

I say that the the Plover Gethubrepo has some fantastic resources for both getting started in installing the Plover software, as well as a whole bunch of resources to to get started with with the harder stuff, which is with learning stenography, so is significant amount of text based Sources there. That should, That should get you on track that, as well as know the discord and and then various blog posts that are around, including ones that I have written that should at least give you a leg up. If you want to just get started. Getting started. To be honest, is the easy part to

 

Hm.

 

the hard, but the hard part will be the actual learning ten of developing

 

Yeah,

 

your habits, and actually So getting used to it all. I guess if I was going to then give advice to my past self, I would probably get a an accountability buddy earlier, and you know, really helped me with my cadence, and with having someone there with a shared interest, who I then had a responsibility to to insure that I had some kind of progress to report back to Like I didn't want to, You know, use up the time of my my sin, accountability buddy. to sort of come back and say that like you. No, thanks for meeting with me, but like I didn't do anything last week, so I got nothing really to share with you. So it can it can really be. You know. it can be hard to do these kinds of things in isolation. So so if you possibly can you know, get a buddy to bounce off. Whether that's you bounce ideas off of or just practice together. You know you don't have to be alone in in doing this, and I thought that it really helped in, and I was doing this in isolation for for a long time, for probably a few. a couple of years. At least, you know, before I really dived into the community got my accountability. But and so so that is, That is definitely the main thing that I would that I would say to my past self if I was able to do that.

 

I could imagine. it's also helpful if you have some specific questions. Maybe like being able to ask those to someone who has also shared interest and getting the perspective on how to tack certain things. I mean, of course you still have a community at that point and

 

Absolutely

 

you could have this car, but I personally, at least I always like this personal connection and having somebody to ask questions.

 

Yeah, look at having someone who is of the same sort of eagerness and excitement level as you

 

Hm.

 

know, to sort of do this new undertaking. having a kind of person to share your experiences with is something that I can definitely recommend.

 

To be honest, that's good. good advice. even beyond learning. Extent of I feel

 

Yeah, absolutely,

 

Okay, Paul. Is there anything else you would like? Kind of let our audience know and follow up to that. If people have questions for you, how can can they reach you?

 

Um, yeah, so I hope that I've been able to at least convince you to give Stentor try, or at least look it up and see what what all the fuss is about. And and you know, get it installed onto onto your computer. You know, give it a try. and then then hopefully you know, you may just end up being the introduction to to a new hobby. we'll see. But but you know, I'm always happy to talk steno, and and you can reach me on Twitter and at Paul Frovanti, and also on. I have a hutubechannel as well, where I'm sort of starting to post some some ten related contents there, and you can also find a bunch of steno related posts, Blog post on my blog at At Paul Frovanti Dot com.

 

Nice. Nice then so I guess you go over there, folks, and the like, and subscribe button, as the Youtubews like to say, Right

 

Yeah, like smash, like and subscribe. I guess

 

exactlyokay. then let us let us go to the fun part of a podcast. Talk about picks. So Paul, have you brought any picks?

 

I have brought some picks. My first pick today is Superintendo world, So my, at the end of twenty twenty two, I took a extended holiday and went to Japan to go and see some, some, some family and friends, and during that time I stopped off at Universal Studio Is Japan In Sucker for the main objective. Really, The only really real edict Objective was to go to superintended world, and I had the best time ever like my, a ten year old had an absolute ball, and I think that anyone who has even a passing interest in in games or your theme parks should absolutely go there. You couldn't wipe the smile off my face for the entire time getting a. getting a ticket to go there was probably one of the most horrid experience Ticket by experience Es I've ever had in my life, And you know the system and the way to get the tickets was just absolutely terrible. but that was all forgotten about when I entered the park. And and you know basalyjust had the time of my life. It was so much fun. And you know I'm in my forties and that doesn't matter. Just go there and and you know, release your inner child and I'm pretty sure that now you don't. Probably, I think that any of our friends based in the Us. don't have to go to Japan any more. I believe that there is a Us. version of it that's opened up at Universal Studios in California, so so I'm sure that it's probably exactly the same thing there. So I would recommend going to either one of those parts there. You will have an awesome time.

 

Damn it, I want to go there so badly

 

Yeah,

 

I grew up with intend games. that like my very first video game that I really remember is like Super Mario World on the Super intend, So now you, you put something in my brain that is not going to leave me

 

So awesome. That's what it's all about. So so think my second pick would be would be G, s Doom, which is a source port for Doom style game. So that's what I alluded to previously with Doom Typist. So, and I guess most importantly, now, aside from the the mods that I was able to run with Doom, is that was that using Gzdoom actually enabled me to be able to Un Classic Doom on a Mac. As far as I know, it's pretty much the only way to do so at this point. So if you are a Mac user and you want to play Doom to Hexan Heretic, and all of the other you know, wonderful and wake mods that are out there, then you will definitely want to look into Jzdoom.

 

Nice,

 

Ah, And then my third pick would be Park run. So Park run is, it's like a community organized event where you sort of every Saturday at various parks around the world. People gather and they do runs like, sort of a competitive yet you fun run there and so running with something that I ended up getting into at the the start of the pandemic, because plenty of Places in Australia were very much locked down, and you could only sort of go out for a short period of time, And so I wanted to ended up wanting to make the most of it. And and that's what sort of kick me off with running. But then starting twenty twenty three, I was kind of like it. I have to you know, start attending some events or running some races or whatever, And in park run is was a great introduction to them. So it's only. it's like five colometers. I'm not certain what that is. In Miles, Um, Developers are smart. You'll be able to google what that is. And but you know it's it's you know. tens or sometimes hundreds of people will turn up there. It's a. It seems to be like a really welcoming and supporting community just based around fitness. And so ye can just know it's really nice to just go and use it as an excuse to explore. You know various parks you know around around your city. So you In Sydney, where I am. At the moment, you know there are. There are plenty of really nice parks there that that you know, I hadn't really visited before, but park ground gave me a reason or an excuse to go there and I'm sure that it would do something similar in the town that that you're in.

 

Nice, but it sounds like fun. It also sounds like something I should probably do more often like I used to actually run quite a bit, and then I like a little bit issues with my knee, and then I stopped running where I probably could pick it up again That you know how these things

 

Yeah,

 

go

 

yeah, well, you know,

 

so

 

in Parkins, case, you don't necessarily have to run. I mean, though they're quite happy to have you walk it, or just

 

Far

 

jog

 

up

 

it,

 

there.

 

or like it's all at your own pace. It's It's just a fun activity. and but yeah, just it's something to get you out and about and and something to give you something just to aim towards, so that you know and you get a time at the end of it, So there's your deliverable at the end. You know. Get that Take away. You know something. After you finish it.

 

Nice, nice, cool. And then I have only one pick this week and that is a video game I started playing recently because I think last time it was I picked the Coolusum before that, I'm not entirely sure, and disclusisis a great game. It's so very text heavy, very very like, thought heavy. so to speak, I saw a lot of game play going on there and I was was yearning for something in a lot more game Play heavy. And then I remember, the recommendation Friend made me recently in a start of playing. So and see was basically a Jack Ly movie. You play a person smashing up a bunch of gangsters. It's like it's a really clear she vengeance story, right like your father was killed Is you're training a lot and then you go out and try to get him and his, his assistance and his. Ah, But it's the interesting Tip it is is that it's as like these roke light elements where you. Your game is really difficult. and in the beginning yu're gonna get your sorry phrase. Yo're gonna get your ass handed to you, And what happens there is. then every time your character gets knocked out they die, the death counter goes up, and your character ages by the number of years on that death counter until you hit seventy and after, If you have to after seventy, you die Basically and throughout the level you can also use the death counter again, but the main thing is kind of you have to get to a bad guy in one run without dying of old age, so to speak, So that is kind of kind of the gist of it. and you can repeat levels and then you can go back to a

 

It

 

level.

 

doesn't have any mods that enable it to become a typing simulator.

 

Maybe, I mean, at that point already it has like quite a complex import pattern because there's a lot of different moves you can be doing. It's not like biretta or ever Cry level combo where it gets really crazy, but in general like, because it's like the kind of game. It has a lot of different techniques the character can be performing. You also unlock progressively. so yeah, it's I. The story is super cliche, but the game players and sanely tied and it's just a Pleasure to play and honestly it just looks so cool. I mean, you're playing this gonfopersings,

 

M. Hm.

 

meashing up games cause it's just a pleasure to watch. So Yeah, if you are looking for something very game play heavy, then see food. I can highly recommend. I'm very very much enjoyed it the very first time I was like nine P. M, and I was like, Let's check this out way quick, and then at one was like, I have to turn to the play station off. I need to go to bed so that is what happened for me, Okay, Paul,

 

Sounds awesome.

 

What's a pleasure having you on the show. Thank you or sparking an interest in Stan in me, Because I might actually check those things off. Maybe not today, maybe not this week. but you definitely intrigued me.

 

Thanks very much for having me on the show Was really fun talking to you and I hope that that anyone that listens to this. Yeah, please consider Steno as your your your next hobby to go and do a deep dive into.

 

Yes, then thank you for all for listening to this and tune in next time when we have another episode of Eleximics By.