In this episode of Adventures in .NET, the panel discusses creating Udemy developer courses and .NET Core APIs with course author Taurius Litvinavicus

Hello, and welcome to another episode of adventuresin.net. I'm Sean Klayberg, your host. And with me today from Australia is Wai Lou. Hey, Wai. Hey.

Hey, Sean. How you doing? Good. Good. So, things warming up for you down there?

Are you you're you're coming into spring. We're going into fall. Yeah. Yeah. I was actually just out out the update, just some shorts on t shirt and shorts.

So that's a bit of a relief. So although I'm getting really bad hay fever now. Do you guys get hay fever wherever you are? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I I have real bass bad grass allergies. And, no. Ironically, right now, I don't look as weird when I mow my lawn because before, even before, you know, COVID, I used to wear a mask to, you know, keep all the grass out of my, my lungs and face and nose and things like that. And so, you know, I look kind of funny out there mowing along with that. Now I just look normal.

And now you just feel like you're a responsible person. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. So our guest today is Turias Litvinovisius.

How are you doing? Hello. I'm doing great, and I'm glad to be here. Alright. Well, why don't you tell us and our listeners a little bit about yourself, you know, what you do, where you live, what kind of things got you into dot net development?

Well, I do at the moment mostly courses, online courses, video courses, c sharp related topics, dotnetcore, and and just dot net stuff in general. So I do those courses. I obviously do some development as well from time to time. My conscious teach something that I do not use. So I do try to do even the smallest projects, which do become quite useful in terms of experience for these particular courses.

So, again, I create courses. I gain some various kinds of experience. I try to expose myself as much as possible to various new technologies, perhaps even older technologies that would doesn't really matter, but as as much of bad variety as possible. And then with that experience, I try to share it with the others and explain what they need to learn and and how to learn it and where to learn it and what to learn. Okay.

So courses, you know, what are kinda some of the the most popular courses that you found people are interested in learning with what's out there now? Well, in terms of what I do, I do have quite a range, and I definitely see what sells and what doesn't in terms of at least of c sharp stuff. And c sharp, as we all know, is a vast language. You can do Windows applications. You can do APIs.

You can do even front end development now with Blazor. And you can also do all these add ins for Microsoft Word, for Microsoft Excel. And I do have courses on probably most of these technologies. I do not have a course on Windows Forms, so I do not believe it would sell very well, and I just did not want to make that effort. But in in terms of what people are interested, Blazer is definitely one of those hot things right now.

It it has been for quite some time. I would say the main sort of growth was maybe last year, last year autumn. So about a year ago, it started to really kind of gain some traction and, you know, I didn't just notice that through various forums and people talking about it and maybe on podcasts, but just in my sales of my courses and other stuff that I do, I did really notice that increase in in terms of blazes. So web development is obviously quite hot right now in general. You have all these different options going on, all these different frameworks.

You know, I personally believe in c sharp. I believe everything with c sharp and Microsoft Technologies is great and and better than anything else. So I did have a chance to work with Go program language, quite extensively last year, and it does have its soft capability of creating APIs that go program a language in in a more native way. You do not have to install some plug in or add in or some third party library, but it's nowhere near as convenient as csharp's .netcore API development where you just open the template. You have everything set properly.

The code is very much readable. It's all great and good and easy to understand. So I do believe this will catch on. I I do believe there is, maybe a bit of a bad thinking about it from the past. Some people maybe want those open source things, and, they somehow consider that c sharp is or Microsoft whole thing is evil.

I do notice that from time to time. People sort of distrust it for whatever reason it may be, but, personally, you know, I I believe it's under one roof and under one giant roof, the whole c sharp and the whole Microsoft thing. If you do web development, you can learn Blazor for the front end. You can learn dotnetcoreapi development for the back end, and then you can connect that API also to Windows application, maybe do something a bit more extensive, more handling of the files and things like that. So you have one language for the API, for one interface, for another interface, and then you also have SQL Server for your databases.

And everything integrates smoothly. Everything comes from one place, from Microsoft, and there's really no third party that needs to be involved in the whole process. So you can also have Windows services. There is a new kind of a template on on Visual Studio. I believe it's so called hosted something like that.

I am not quite sure what it's called, but, it's it's sort of a useful thing. It's a Windows service in general. You can run it as such, but it is not on dotnetframework. It is on dotnetcore. So that's basically the the new thing of it.

I do believe it's actually easier to set up if if you do want that sort of quick setup compared to the old Windows, service. But, in the end of the day, you establish everything. You post it in your 4 day creator service, and you run a test service in in this Windows settings. Is that the worker service? That may be the word.

Yeah. Yeah. I've used it a few times, but I can never remember the name properly. But, yeah, that that kinda rings a bell, so it's probably a worker service. Yeah.

I was looking into one of those just this last week on one of the projects that I've been working on, so that's just the one thing that popped to my head. So how did you end up deciding on, you know, that you wanted to be a a course creator for for development as a as a career? Well, you know, I didn't have a some some specific moment for that, but I guess I was always looking for some new business opportunities, you know, try something new, consult something instead of maybe doing something myself. And, somehow, I tried to to to do a course. I thought, why not?

You know, I know what needs to be explained. And in fact, my first course, was dotnetcoreapi development course, not this one, the latest one, the first iteration, we can call it. It was on a sort of rather poor quality microphone at that point. So the the sound quality wasn't the best, but I did release it. So I released it, and, it did get a few sales.

So, you know, from there, I thought why not. You know? It wasn't, you know, a lot of money on on that first course or anything like that, but I thought if it can stay for a year, it will sort of pay off. And, you know, I I looked into other things I know, and I developed few more courses and then more courses. And, you know, that's how I really got started.

There's nothing too fancy about it, but, you know, I just tried something. I tried a few more things. Some courses worked out. Some courses did not work out. You know?

I believe I have a couple of courses, but never got any sales at all. I mean, it's a complete zero, but, you know, if you don't take a risk, you don't reap the rewards, and that's how it goes. Can you can you explain the process of creating a course? Like, do you do you plan it all out first, and then and then do you use some sort of special software to record it? Yeah.

Well, I do plan it out. I usually write out the curriculum of a course first so that I know what's happening. Say, for example, my Blazer course, I first cover the basics, then I cover the navigation, then I cover components. And in those sections, I have different lectures. So it's a it's not a script by any means.

It's just, the curriculum for the course. And, in fact, I never work with a script. I believe it is a waste of time and the kind of lectures I try to do, I try to do everything on the go. So for I believe it's, it's a bit more exciting, first of all, but also if I notice something interesting that I did not think of, before doing the lecture, I can actually mention it. Now if I had a script, I would probably not be able to do that.

It's very difficult to kinda go out of the script and then get back inside the script. So I never use a script as such, but I usually prepare the code prior to the lecture. So I prepare that piece of code, that example code before I record. And I used to do mostly these lectures where I actually type it all in and talk about it while I was doing that, but now I usually just talk about code that's already written. I think it does consume less time for for the learner.

It's a bit quicker, but, you know, some people do like that slower pace course, and you really can't satisfy everyone. But, you know, I I try to sometimes I do mix it up, especially if I do an example, a simple example. So I'll type it in as I'm talking about it. But usually, if it's more complex piece of code, and that's lately what I've been doing, I will prepare the piece of code, and then I'll talk about it. I'll explain about each acts aspect of it, each method, each variable, or whatever needs to be explained in that piece of code.

And I do use, of course, a recording software. I actually use this one called OBS Studio. It's it's free one, I think. I use then another one for editing that's not exactly free, but, it's it's it's a good one. It's a sort of sort of a budget option.

But I guess if you're gonna do a video and you're not, a professional editor, you really do not need some fancy toolset. You know, I use this, BSDC. It's called editing tool, and, it's really great. There are many advanced features which I never use. You know, I just don't have the time to to spend on on those implementations.

And I actually did a very quick course, some time ago on on using this VSDC tool. You know? The reason I did that is going to you know, in in general, you find these different courses and about these video editing things, and, they are for professionals. We want to turn you into professionals. Why did I try something very basic, you know, just to show people how to cut the videos, how to add zoom in, zoom out effects, and, basic things like that just with very basic explanations.

And some people like that. Some people in the reviews do say that they want something a bit more advanced. But, you know, in the end of the day, I tried to make something basic, and, I do believe I succeeded in that regard. Are there some key elements that make a course a good course? And how long how long is a typical course, you know, for somebody to take?

Well, the course length, first of all, it really depends on the topic. I have courses that are an hour long. I have courses that are several hours long. I'm not sure which one is the longest. I do believe I have one that's 5 hours long in terms of the video content.

Now some courses will have exercises and then the solutions for exercises. So, obviously, if you're you are going to take the exercise or you're going to try to make that program, it will take a lot longer for you to actually get through the whole course. But, you know, that's really the point to to to take the course and to actually practice. But then again, I I don't always do these exercises for my courses. It really depends on the topic on on how vast it is and how maybe advanced it is.

Sometimes it is quite quite difficult to actually establish an exercise when the tool in question is extremely basic or at least somewhat basic. I did a course on Postman, for example. That's a tool of which you can access your APIs, basically, send requests, retrieve them, and establish documentation if you need that. The course is about an hour long. It explains how each feature is accessed, where to find everything.

You know, it's it's a good course when you really need it. So you find a a gig or a job and, someone says you'll be using Postman, and you you you have no clue how to use it. So you take that course an hour long, and you're free to go. There's no confusion. Everything works perfectly.

You can interact with your colleagues, talk about it. Everything is great. And most of your courses are on on Udemy. Is that right? Yes.

Most of my courses will be on Udemy. I've been trying to expand around. So, of course, dot net Core API development course is available on Manning. I think it's a very nice, platform. We have this nice, basically, place where you watch the video.

You know, it's it's I do believe it looks better than most of of the tools out there. You know, just a very nice video player. It seems quite quite easy to watch as as much as I had the chance to watch anything on there. But, Yeah. Most of my courses are renewed to me.

I have some other places where I do host I do some courses, some parts of the courses, on Skillshare as well. You know, I I try to expand as much as as possible. I don't want to stay in one place, in one, in one platform, and, I try to do that as much as I can. How is you today? Yeah.

Hey. Hey. It's Caleb. Sorry sorry I'm late. Hey.

I had a client meeting. You guys know how those go. Yeah. And we also have a hurricane. Right?

Yes. It's gonna this one's gonna miss us too. New Orleans has been very lucky this year. Are you at the worst rain down right now? We're getting heavy winds expected to have rain later tonight.

But, yes, I'm here. I made it. Sorry about that. I hear you guys are talking about making, developer courses or courses for developers. That's good stuff.

Yeah. Okay. So I I was asking, Vintore, how is Udemy to work with from an author's, you know, creator's standpoint? Well, Udemy is it's it's a platform. You know?

It's a platform where you publish your course. It's a tool. It's not, you know, you don't really directly work with the company itself. So it's it's a tool. It's a giant tool.

And if you're starting out with this, course developments, you should probably go with Udemy. It's probably the largest actually, not probably. It is the largest platform for for courses. And if you can get any sales, you probably will be able to get some sales through that platform. And then, obviously, you can expand into into other places.

But, you know, places like Manning and, some other companies, you actually have to interact with them. You talk with them. They maybe improve your descriptions and and do your marketing properly. Udemy, again, it's it's a platform. I can't really say something too bad about it, but in the end of the day, it is just a platform, and it won't look after you.

You know? It's it's it will look after itself. Is there any kind of a screening process, or can anybody put a course up there? I believe anybody can put a course up. I think you have to send, like, an introductory video if, when you register it first.

Again, I I I don't remember this anymore. It has been some time, but I I do believe you have to send a video sort of introduction of yourself. I guess you have to verify your identity or something like that. I'm not quite sure. And then you just publish it, and they review the course.

But I'm not sure what the review is supposed to be on the we do have some very strict promotion guidelines. You can't put affiliate links in the in those courses. You can't put basically, many things, and I think the review process of the actual course is basically for those reasons. You know? So that you wouldn't promote something and then you wouldn't do something like that.

They don't really seem to check on quality. You know, I believe I had a few incidents where I released a course with duplicate videos for basically 2 lectures and duplicate video for for both of them where it should be a different one. And, it went through a review process, and then I believe I received a review saying that or someone sent me a message, and I said that review process, did nothing good, in that regard. And, so I again, I I I just think they they just check for those affiliate things, so maybe something like that. And then they do take, like, 3 days now since the February.

I think they take, like, 6 days to to to review the course, but I'm not really sure what they do there. I actually I own a few courses on Udemy, and I also have a Pluralsight subscription. How would you compare the 2? Right? Because Pluralsight is strictly for developers, and Udemy is anything and everything.

Right? Yeah. Well, Udemy, I think you'll find more choices. Pluralsight, I think, you know, on on platforms like Pluralsight, some platforms like Manning as well, you will find good quality courses, but you won't find as much choice for those courses. You know, if you go on Udemy, you'll find probably at least 5 courses on Blazer, at least 5 courses on SQL Server, and you can choose between them.

And, you know, I always say just because the course is good for one person, it will not be good for another person. It it depends on many things on how fast the person speaks, what the accent is, and even what the person looks like. You know? If someone hates the way you look, you you just can't do anything about it. And, you know, I always try to dress as well as I can and do all these different things.

But, you know, if someone hates suit and tie, then they probably won't join my course, and they'll probably leave me a one star review. But there's just nothing you can do about that. What what about the time? Like, how much expertise do you need to to do one of these courses, and how much time do you spend researching before you start? Yeah.

Well, it's it's difficult to say about such specifics on, on on time. You know, it really depends on on each course. Some courses are very smooth, very quick. You just kinda know what to do. You know, you write one code example.

You record it. Everything flows through smoothly. But sometimes, you know, you'll do maybe 80% of the course, everything's smooth, but then there will be one single topic where the code example crashes all the time and nothing works. And, you know, the whole process might take 5 hours, but that one little piece might take another 20 hours to do. But, in general, I don't really calculate how many hours I work or, you know, do any kind of time management in in in that regard.

I don't believe in doing that. You know? In a in a way, we are creating art here, and you have to let yourself find time to think about it, to relax a bit, you know, get your thoughts together. You can't rush these courses and, you know, you you can't do it in in that sort of rushed kind of a way. You just have to take your time and and see see how it goes.

Whatever happens, happens, and I really can't predict how much time one course of the other will take. Obviously, on on some more simple tool, it might be a bit quicker. But then again, if you're if you're dealing with, registrations, maybe some third party integration where you have to download something, it will be a bit more troublesome to record, especially if you're working on a semi live platform. So you might need to hide some passwords or emails or things like that in the postproduction if we can even call it that. And, you know, it will take a lot more time even though it's a very basic thing, something that can be very smooth.

But once you start needing to to hide all those things and edit all those things, it can become a lot more troublesome. Do you do your, write your own scripts and handle your own video editing, or do you outsource? Well, as I mentioned previously, I I don't use a script at all. I just use the code piece code example as as a sort of script for me. But in terms of editing, yes, I do my own editing.

You know, I I I didn't believe there would be too much more value added if if I hired someone, and it will probably take just as much time as I would do it myself. You know, at this point, I know how to do it somewhat properly. I'm not calling myself a professional by any means, but, I do know how to do it, and I can do it. And, if I had to explain to someone what needs to be done, it would just take more time in terms of management. It wouldn't be a very good deal.

So let's talk a little bit about one of your courses. And I I think what you're mentioning earlier before we started recording was your, dot net core API course and discussions. And what's kind of the some important points for people to know about writing APIs in dotnetcore? Well, first of all, the whole idea is quite simple. There is no need to overcomplicate things.

Now in this course, I start with sort of basic arrangements, how to send data, basically retrieve the sent data from that, HTTP request, how to access all the query elements, the headers, the body in different ways. And, dotnetcoreapi basically offers something quite great in terms of accessing JSON body. You do not have to actually deal with it. You simply deal with it in the parameters of that method, action method, whichever word you prefer. And, you know, it it's all quite basic.

It's all quite easy to use. Now I get in some other things such as action filters for security measures, and, then I explain dependencies, dependency injection, all those services, and things like that in in a very simple manner because it's a simple thing. You know? It's it it does not have to be overcomplicated like, I find most people do. You know?

You'll see so much code that handles one tiny procedure. You'll see maybe 3 dotcs files that will handle only one simple procedure. Say data comes into the API and gets inserted into the database, and then you will find all these handlers that don't even work. There is no need to do that. You know?

You don't have to overcomplicate things, and that's why I always try to do well, it's try to explain whether it's dotnetcoreapi or Blazor or whatever else it may be. You know? There's no need to overcomplicate things. So but, again, in the course itself, I start with the basics, explain the basics quickly, then I get into some dependency injections, action filters, which is quite important if you're gonna do your security measures. Maybe check for some access token before the request comes into that action method.

And then finally, I have a little example. It's, it's quite complex, but it is quite usable. It's basically an account system. So we have registration, login, and then authorization of of these different, API routes. Now the example does not include, any kind of a front end interface, but it does include some interactions with databases so we can actually feel the example as something somewhat real world.

And, you know, I provided this example in hopes, basically, that it would be not only something to look at, but so that people could actually use it in their own projects because you can copy it, paste it, make a few additions, see if you have your maybe email or phone verification and and things like that, and implement it in your own project. It's a very usable piece of code, and it's not a library where you can't change anything. It's a normal piece of code. It's, I believe, structured quite properly. And, for anyone who wants to copy and and use it in their own projects, it should be quite simple or relatively simple at least to to do so.

So this example is using web API and then you're connecting to the database using, I'm guessing, it's the framework and then it has no front end so you're just you're just calling it with host Right. The example notes. Example, again, I try to keep everything basic, so I always use Adonets. I don't use entity framework. I'm not fond of it.

It's just a very simple kind of a procedure. You know? All all that code is prepared for for the database connections and things like that. All the procedures are created properly. And So what are what are you using to connect to the database instead of entity framework?

It's Sando NET. Ad0.net? Yeah. Yeah. Ad0.net.

Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. So what are some of the differences with writing APIs for dot net core versus full framework?

Well, I mean, dot net core, it's it's just simple to access. You know? I, I can't really compare it too much with with something else. But, basically, you know, what I can say, if you have Visual Studio, if you know how to use C Sharp, what you will do to create an API, you'll open Visual Studio. You'll create new project, API project, and you'll have your API pretty much laid out.

You'll have your controllers that is basically a class file, fancy class file. And in that, you will have your action methods where you will have the routes above the action methods, and you know quite clearly where the data goes and and comes out from. So one other thing you also talked about that I thought was somewhat interesting before we started recording was integrating with Stripe. We haven't had anybody on the show talk about integrations with external companies before, especially something like Stripe. That sounds pretty interesting.

What's that like? What to take to to do something like that? Well, it is surprisingly quite easy. So the basic integration, the calls I have in I actually implemented it in in couple of, real world life projects, about, that Stripe integration, and it it does work. It does work quite properly.

Basically, we're talking about Stripe checkout. Okay? So you you have your own system which handles what happens after payment, but the Stripe checkout is this page to which you redirect the user. You create a session. You redirect the user to that Stripe checkout's page, and then they come back.

Now during that whole interaction with Stripe checkout, it will send a hook to your own system so that will be handled by the API. Now the good thing in terms of, dotnetcoreapi development, dotnetcoreapi is, is that you can actually quite easily integrate that Stripe API, that Stripe library, I should say. There is a proper Stripe library for c sharp, and, you can integrate that quite easily. But the whole procedure basically is from Blazor side, you send a request to your API. Then in your API, you you deal with the sort of initial setup of a pay of a payment, and then that creates a session with the Stripe.

So the session is on Stripe database. The sort of initial payment is recorded. It's not complete. Right? And then it comes back with that little code into the Blazer.

And then from Blazor, you just have to redirect to that Stripe checkout page, and that's all there is to it. So, you know, it's it's not too troublesome. You don't have to create maybe some kind of a frame for for some JavaScript thing. You don't need that that sort of specific integration. You do need to to use a bit of JavaScript.

I don't want to say something specific that may be wrong, but you do need to reference the Stripe JavaScript library in in that Blazor project and then basically make one execution of of JavaScript function. And I think that function then redirects everything. So, you you know, it's it's not difficult at all. It's quite simple. There are, of course, many ways that you can integrate these, Stripe payments.

They they do have, quite a few options, but this checkout, I think, is the easiest one. It's the most convenient one. And more importantly, with that checkout, there's a few changes, of course, in in the back end and so probably no changes in the front end. You can do subscriptions as well. So that, I believe, this is quite useful.

You know? So you can do checkout for a sort of single payment and then checkout for for subscriptions. I think we're good. Let's go on to picks. I think we're good.

Alright. So, Wai, what's your pick? So this week's pick is an app called Oberai that I discovered. So it's an app that tries to improve your communication skills. It's essentially like a game.

It gives you some of these impromptu speaking exercises and it kinda just records you and evaluates, like, how you speak. So how counts how many filler words you use and how fast your speaking speed is and things like that, and it kinda just gives you a score. So yeah, I thought it was really interesting how using AI to try to improve your speech. So yeah. Cool.

Alright. You go ahead, Caleb. What'd you pick? It's not a game. Not a game.

Nice. But but, you know, it is your house from a hurricane. Oh, yeah. It is one of the other things I pick quite often, which are TV shows. And this one is actually The Boys season 2 on Amazon by the time this Yeah.

No spoilers because I'm I just started watching season 2. Oh, no. No. No. I'm a keep it on.

But but they by the time this comes out, all the episodes will have been released. So if you want, you can binge them if you haven't watched it already. But, yeah, now the season 1 was good. So So for people that aren't familiar with The Boys at all, you know, give us the overview. The overview is it's based off a comic, and the comic is the idea that the so called superheroes are actually they work for mega corporations, and they're more about themselves and their own needs than anything else.

They're really villains in superhero costumes. So it's interesting. I think I saw some previews of, yeah, some of that. Looked kind of one of the one thing was a little disgusting where some guy was ran by this couple and It's dark. Stuff.

Yeah. It's pretty dark. Glory. Yeah. I wouldn't be showing it to you kids or anything.

Yeah. No. Okay. Alright. PG 13?

No. It's it's much more closer to NC 17. Okay. My pick this week is also gonna be a TV show. And I'm watching it on Netflix, but it originally started out on MTV.

And that was for season 1, and then it moved to spike for season 2. And the reason I wanna have it for my pick this week is because Paramount bought spike or MTV or something like that. And they'd end up canceling the show before they got to season 3. And this show is it's called the Shannara Chronicles. And it's based on some books, which were were somewhat popular.

And but the first two seasons of the show of the show were pretty good. But there's no season 3 on track right now. So I'm just hoping to spread the word, get people to watch the show, and hopefully, Netflix or somebody will pick up and have, season 3 produced. Because right now, it's just they left the end of season 2 on, you know, kind of like a cliffhanger a little bit. And they put to be continued at the end of it.

Well Oh, no. There is no there is no to be continued. I think I I've watched the first couple of episodes. It's a it's a little cheesy. Yeah.

Right. I'll give you that. Yeah. But if you like that, it's it's great. Right?

Yep. Yep. Okay, Sean. You know what? I'm gonna watch the rest of season 1 and season 2 this weekend, and I'm gonna email Netflix that they need to get off their bus and renew it.

Just just play you don't have to watch it. Just play it so they know if somebody was somebody was playing it. Just There you go. Put out repeat. Something like that.

Yeah. Yep. Alright, Tarece. You kinda heard our picks our picks and have a sense of what they are. Or there is there anything that you wanna let our listeners know about that interests you today?

Well, actually, you know, you had a bit of fun, but I I was thinking about something. I never made a sort of public statement about, this kind of stuff. I always I've had a few interviews recently and, always discuss about programming and and and mostly programming, and and maybe I do make some controversial statements in in that regard. But I will actually make a bit more of a controversial one, I think, today. And, I will pick Azure DevOps, and I will pick it over GitHub.

Now I believe, you know, this is the modern way to manage your projects. So, you know, and we have to we have to go into that modern arrangement where you have everything in one place where you have a modern user interface. And I do believe Azure DevOps is the way to go. I think it's easier to access via Visual Studio, and, you know, it's it's just a lot better than GitHub. I haven't used GitHub in, as long as I've been using, Azure DevOps.

So probably more than 2 years, I am afraid to use these years and and other, numbers. You know, someone might call me out. But, you know, I I do believe Azure DevOps is the future of, management of of these development projects. Alright. Well, they're they're both Microsoft owned, so I don't think there's any too much controversy there.

So yeah. Yes. They are. They are. Yep.

So thanks for being on the show today. If there's listeners have any questions, is there a way to get in touch with you? Are you on Twitter or some other way? I am on LinkedIn, so I believe that's that's the best way to get in touch with me if someone needs me. Okay.

Great. Well, I appreciate your time. And if the listeners wanna get in touch with the show, they wanna get in touch with me, they can reach out to me on Twitter. I am at.netsuperhero. Grapes are bad.

Yep. Alright. Thanks, guys. We'll catch you know. Nice talk.

Everybody on the, yep, on the next episode of adventures in dot net.