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AiA 146 10 Ways to Lose a Developer with Bonnie Brennan and Keith Stewart

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Published : Jul 04, 2017

Duration : 1 Hours, 9 Minutes

Show Notes

AiA 146: 10 Ways to Lose a Developer with Bonnie Brennan and Keith Stewart

On today's episode of Adventures in Angular, we have panelists Ward Bell, Alyssa Nicoll, Joe Eames, and Charles Max Wood. We have special guests, Bonnie Brennan of ngHouston and Keith Stewart of CollabNet. The discussion ranges from the Most Common Reason for People to Leave to Mandatory Happy Hour that companies have! Stay tuned!

[00:01:05] Introduction to Bonnie Brennan and Keith Stewart

Bonnie is an Angular architect at Houston, Texas. She is the founder of ngHouston. She also runs Code Bridge Texas with her daughter. They do free programming workshops for girls. She’s going to be at a couple of conferences coming up. They’re going to AngularMix and FrontEnd Connect with Alyssa.

Keith, on the other hand, works for a company called CollabNet as a UI Tech Lead. He is working mostly on UI’s for DevOps-related products. He is also a frequent panelist on the ngHouston Meet up broadcast that Bonnie runs and a curator on ngDoc.io with Alyssa and Joe.

[00:03:20] – Most common reason for people to leave

If Bonnie has to narrow down, she thinks it’s the tech stack. Some companies have a lot of legacy code that needs to be maintained but at the same time, when you are a developer who spends a lot of time on emerging technologies, you want to be working on this new stuff that you’re learning.

While working on this course on how to find a better dev job, Charles surveyed people on Skype or the phone. They feel stuck and not moving ahead.

[00:10:50] – In the culture, if you’re not a performer, then, you’re not trying hard enough?

Joe thinks that we have this problem in this industry that if you are not going to be blogging and speaking at conferences, then, you just don’t belong. Ward also thinks that you don’t have to be a performer to contribute to a great development environment. But for Bonnie, being a performer is not exactly about getting up on stage. It really is about caring enough.

Alyssa tells about the gradient of the type of person. There’s a person like, “Okay, this is just a job for me but I still take pride in my work.” But if you’re in the mindset of “Hey, I have kids or I have a wife outside of this. But I’m still giving it my all while I’m here.” Then, it’s perfectly reasonable. Keith also tells about the two different types of people. The generalists, the folks who are on the bleeding-edge, they don’t necessarily master one of those, and the other folks who get really good at one particular thing that they’re working on.

Ward cites an instance where you’re in an enterprise and you have a lot of very important legacy systems that need a person who cares about the legacy stuff. You can’t have a company that has all people who have to be on the bleeding-edge all the time.

[00:18:55] – Type of developers that companies want and how to keep them

Ward mentions how professional growth is important. The opportunities for people to work on the leading technologies is not always something that every company can offer but they can sprinkle these opportunities here and there. It can be done but if it’s not, there are things that you can do with some of the legacy applications to make them more palatable to work on.

Charles suggests to companies to show the developers that you care, you are listening. It’s on the roadmap and you’re going to get there.

[00:22:55] – Is boss on your list of Ways to Lose a Developer?

Bonnie can’t think of the time that she has left because of her boss. But the company culture is an important thing because however, the upper management feels about culture, that’s going to trickle down.

One issue about Charles’ boss is that he is very controlling. Another issue is he was specifying the requirements for the application and he wasn’t very good at staying consistent with it. They wind up building one thing but gets angry with them because they hadn’t built what he wanted, even though it was exactly what he specified.

Bonnie also had a situation similar to Charles where the project requirements kept changing while she was writing the code. If you feel like you’re going to work to be frustrated again, it doesn’t matter what technology you’re using, it doesn’t matter how you like the rest of your co-workers, eventually, you’re going to burn out.

[00:27:00] – Not being paid enough

When you’re not making a whole lot of money, Bonnie thinks it can be a big deal but it’s not the biggest issue. For Keith, if he would be weighing two companies, he’ll also choose the company with the good tech stack instead of the company which pays a little higher. But Ward thinks that it is a privilege to be in an industry where even in the low-end of the salary rank, you tend to be pretty comfortable.

[00:29:55] – Effective ways to show your appreciation to a developer

Bonnie refers to an instance when the boss gives credit for a developer in a meeting on how he did a great job on a feature. And on the flipside, the worst kind of boss is the boss that says, “Look what I did.”

But Keith finds it a difficult question because it might be different for other people. Some people like to be called out in a meeting and say, “You did a good job.” But some folks would like that to be a little more behind the scenes. Or some folks might be looking for a bonus instead. So you might be able to read your people.

For Alyssa, she likes the boss who regularly checks in even if it’s not a pat on the back because it just shows that they care about the process. Ward speaks of the boss who asks your opinion on an important decision, technical or otherwise.

[00:37:40] – Recruitment

Keith never likes the recruitment process of companies which bring a lot of people in and give them coding exercises on a whiteboard. So they built a small application that’s similar to the application that the folks will actually be doing.

[00:41:05] – Remote vs. working in an office

Alyssa loves being remote. She mentions she has ADHD so she was distracted in an office setting. It’s important for her to set up her environment to be more productive. Bonnie also has been working remote for 3 years now. It used to be difficult to communicate but now, we can just use video call.

But Keith finds people more engaged in a meeting when it’s in person. An office space can add a lot of value to a team. Ward points out that you can also be distracted as well by working remote. In Google, they all work in the office. Even though they have open office plans, sitting right next to each other, they trust the people that they can do well in that environment. People put on headphones when they’re really focusing on something.

[00:53:20] – Mandatory happy hour

Companies which have a snack room, ping pong table, foosball can contribute to company culture and make it a much more attractive place for developers. But Alyssa gets scared a little bit when programmers go overboard and sometimes you’re not into it as much as they are.

Picks

Ward Bell

Progressive Web Apps (PWA)
Jake Archibald on PWA

Joe Eames

Shimmer Lake
Keith Stewart

Charles

Bonnie Brennan

Keith Stewart

Special Guests: Bonnie Brennan and Keith Stewart.

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Adventures in Angular AiA 171: Why People Are Sticking With AngularJS (1.x)
Adventures in Angular Unleashing Angular's Potential with WebAssembly and Rust - AiA 418
Adventures in Angular 070 AiA Holiday Pick List
Adventures in Angular Go Faster with these Angular Utility Libraries - AiA 395
Adventures in Angular Documenting your Codebase with Compodoc - AiA 394
Adventures in Angular AiA 281: The IAN Stack with Brooks Forsyth
Adventures in Angular BONUS: How Jason Weimann Became a Game Developer
Adventures in Angular Data Mocking with Dave Cooper - AiA 427
Adventures in Angular The 3 Essentials for Successful Job Outcomes - BONUS
Adventures in Angular Standalone Structure with Nx - AiA 372
Adventures in Angular AiA 150: What's New with Ionic with Mike Hartington
Adventures in Angular Mastering Open Source Contributions with Santosh Yadav - AiA 411
Adventures in Angular Navigating Technical Hurdles: Exporting Invoices to PDF and Maintaining Rich Text Formatting - AiA 412
Adventures in Angular 020 AiA Structuring Code in an AngularJS App with Dan Wahlin
Adventures in Angular Comparing Angular and React in 2023 - AiA 376
Adventures in Angular AiA 236: Getting Deeper into then CLI with Dave Müllerchen
Adventures in Angular 033 AiA Elementor with Andres Dominguez
Adventures in Angular Managing and Capturing Errors in Angular ft. Philipp Kief - AiA 325
Adventures in Angular 056 AiA Server Rendering with Angular with Jeff Whelpley and Patrick Stapleton
Adventures in Angular 001 AiA The Birth of Angular
Adventures in Angular Cross Platform Angular with Richard Sithole - AiA 425
Adventures in Angular BONUS: How to Crush Your Biggest Goals in 2021
Adventures in Angular 088 AiA Angular Style Guides
Adventures in Angular Getting the Right SignalR with Andrew Evans - AiA 338
Adventures in Angular 092 AiA webpack with Sean T. Larkin
Adventures in Angular 065 AiA News From AngularConnect
Adventures in Angular AiA 001: The Birth of Angular
Adventures in Angular AiA 301: Community — Leaving Politics Out Of It
Adventures in Angular UI Libraries, Buy or Build? - AiA 393
Adventures in Angular AiA 208: From Custom Webpack Build to Angular CLI with Martin Jakubik
Adventures in Angular Profiling Angular Apps with Gil Fink - AiA 430
Adventures in Angular 041 AiA TypeScript with Dan Wahlin
Adventures in Angular AiA 180: Angular Today with Stephen Fluin
Adventures in Angular AiA 228: Issues with the Title, Front End Web Dev
Adventures in Angular AiA 222: 10 Lessons Learned in Enterprise Angular Development with Chaz Gatian
Adventures in Angular AiA 217: Mastermind Groups for Startups, Consulting & Career Growth with Sean Merron
Adventures in Angular Choosing the Right Tooling with Jared Youtsey - AiA 342
Adventures in Angular Responsive Angular Components ft. Miroslav Jonas - AiA 320
Adventures in Angular The ESLint NGRx Plugin - AiA 330
Adventures in Angular How to Stay Current - AiA 322
Adventures in Angular Chuck's Journey and Top End Devs Going Forward - AiA 332
Adventures in Angular How to Get Hired at a FANG Company - BONUS
Adventures in Angular TypeScript Mixins - AiA 327
Adventures in Angular How to Get a 60% Performance Gains with Push Pipe featuring Michael Hladky - AiA 315
Adventures in Angular Integration Testing Routed Angular Features with Lars Brink - Part 1 - AiA 314
Adventures in Angular Interesting Facts and Features of the Angular Router with Andrei Gatej - AiA 311
Adventures in Angular Cross Platform Angular with Richard Sithole - AiA 309
Adventures in Angular 097 AiA Angular 2 Tips with Pascal Precht
Adventures in Angular AiA 253: Upgrading AngularJS to Angular with Sam Julien
Adventures in Angular AiA 258: Angular Architecture with Manfred Steyer
Adventures in Angular AiA 259: Ngrid with Shlomi Assaf
Adventures in Angular AiA 260: NgRx, The Mystical Machine, with Wes Grimes
Adventures in Angular AiA 265: Progressive Enhancements with Ire Aderinokun
Adventures in Angular 098 AiA Azure Functions Portal with Chris Anderson and Ahmed ElSayed
Adventures in Angular BONUS: Continuing Your Learning Journey by Finding Mentors as an Influencer
Adventures in Angular AiA 216: Building a Complete Web Application from Scratch Alone with Amir Tugendhaft
Adventures in Angular The Angular Developer’s Nx Handbook - AiA 350
Adventures in Angular AiA 267: JavaScript Performance with Tammy Everts
Adventures in Angular AiA 270: JAMstack Conf SF with Mandy Michael & Shawn Erquhart
Adventures in Angular AiA 304: What is a Top 5% Developer?
Adventures in Angular AiA 303: How to Make an Impact on the Development Community
Adventures in Angular AiA 302: Angular 11 on 11/11
Adventures in Angular AiA 231: Why Angular Developers Should Learn RxJS
Adventures in Angular 066 AiA How To Build Directives Around Another JavaScript Library with Uri Shaked
Adventures in Angular AiA 272: Adventures in Angular Still at RxJS Live
Adventures in Angular AiA 274: Building with Angular Fire with Jamie Perkins
Adventures in Angular AiA 275: From Zero to Top of the App Store on Ionic: Seed to Spoon with Dale Spoonemore
Adventures in Angular AiA 300: The 300th Episode
Adventures in Angular AiA 278: Working From Home
Adventures in Angular AiA 167: Deploying Angular
Adventures in Angular AiA 298: Progressive State Management with NGXS with Aliaksei Kuncevic
Adventures in Angular AiA 305: How to Stay Current
Adventures in Angular 042 AiA Dependency Injection and Change Detection with Victor Savkin
Adventures in Angular AiA 296: Angular vs React: What Grad Students Pick 100% of the Time with Asaad Saad
Adventures in Angular 094 AiA ng-conf 2016 Live!
Adventures in Angular 051 AiA The Angular 1 Compiler with Tero Parviainen
Adventures in Angular AiA 290: Angular Performance with Christian Liebel
Adventures in Angular AiA 230: Smart 404 Pages with Vitalii Bobrov
Adventures in Angular AiA 288: Getting your Components to Communicate with Ravi Veliyat
Adventures in Angular AiA 129 How do I Start My Single Page App?
Adventures in Angular 048 AiA The Road to NG2
Adventures in Angular AiA 280: Where is Angular Headed? with Tracy Lee
Adventures in Angular 117 AiA Hot Loading and Time Travel with Tero Parviainen
Adventures in Angular AiA 284: Progressive Web Apps using Angular with Maxim Salnikov
Adventures in Angular 090 AiA NativeScript Part 2 with TJ VanToll
Adventures in Angular AiA 282: Fauna and Cloud Databases with Evan Weaver
Adventures in Angular AiA 279: Angular for Enterprise-Ready Web Apps with Doguhan Uluca
Adventures in Angular 078 AiA NG Beta with Brad Green, Miško Hevery, and Igor Minar
Adventures in Angular AiA 126 Incrementally Upgrading an Application to Angular 2 with Danny Blue
Adventures in Angular AiA 271: Adventures in Angular at RxJS Live
Adventures in Angular AiA 277: Is Angular Declining?
Adventures in Angular 036 AiA Protractor with Julie Ralph
Adventures in Angular 019 AiA Microsoft Tooling with Mads Kristensen
Adventures in Angular AiA 276: The 10 Commandments of Angular Development Christian Lüdemann
Adventures in Angular AiA 238: Angular State w/ NgRx with Mike Ryan
Adventures in Angular 069 AiA Angular 2 Documentation with Pascal Precht
Adventures in Angular AiA 255: The Elephant in the JS Community
Adventures in Angular AiA 273: A Real Look at an Enterprise Application with Juan Stoppa
Adventures in Angular AiA 269: Data Mocking with Dave Cooper
Adventures in Angular AiA 266: Creating Content in Portuguese with Loiane Groner
Adventures in Angular AiA 268: Secure Angular Apps with Philippe De Ryck
Adventures in Angular AiA 263: The JAM in JAMstack with Tara Z. Manicsic
Adventures in Angular 084 AiA Angular Material 2 with Jeremy Elbourn
Adventures in Angular AiA 245: CosmosDB with Steve Faulkner LIVE at Microsoft BUILD
Adventures in Angular AiA 257: The Easiest Way to use Angular Elements with Tomas Trajan
Adventures in Angular AiA 243: Lazy loading in Angular (with Angular Elements) with Juri Strumpflohner
Adventures in Angular AiA 215: “Progressive Web Apps” with Aaron Gustafson / Live at Microsoft Ignite
Adventures in Angular AiA 235: Functional Programming with Angular, NgRx with Raul Jimenez
Adventures in Angular AiA 201: AI & Angular with Asim Hussain
Adventures in Angular AiA 233: Getting Serious with Schematics with Tomas Trajan
Adventures in Angular AiA 232: The Seinfeld Episode
Adventures in Angular AiA 206: The Origin of JavaScript with Brendan Eich
Adventures in Angular AiA 291: Azure Cognitive Services with Ankit Sharma
Adventures in Angular AiA 219: Testing Angular Applications with Michael Giambalvo
Adventures in Angular AiA 212: “Angular Console” with Dan Muller
Adventures in Angular BONUS: How Jason Weimann Became a Game Developer
Adventures in Angular AiA 211: “Azure Pipelines” with Ed Thomson LIVE at Microsoft Ignite
Adventures in Angular AiA 218: Developer Freedom with Charles Max Wood
Adventures in Angular 115 AiA Polymer and Web Components with Angular 2 with Rob Dodson
Adventures in Angular 110 AiA Special Angular 2 Final is Released
Adventures in Angular AiA 202: "Programming education/education research" with Neil Brown
Adventures in Angular 104 AiA Forms with Justin Schwartzenberger
Adventures in Angular 103 AiA New Developer Problems
Adventures in Angular AiA 181: Doing More with Less and Router-First Architecture with Doguhan Uluca
Adventures in Angular AiA 199: RxJS with Ben Lesh, Tracy Lee, and Jay Phelps
Adventures in Angular 102 AiA Angular and WordPress with Ryan Sullivan and Roy Sivan
Adventures in Angular AiA 195: Angular for Microsoft Developers with Sahil Malik
Adventures in Angular 099 AiA Firebase and AngularFire2 with David East and Jeff Cross
Adventures in Angular 101 AiA The State of NG2 with Rob Wormald and Stephen Fluin
Adventures in Angular 086 AiA Being a Good Open Source Citizen
Adventures in Angular 093 AiA Angular Universal Patterns with Jeff Whelpley
Adventures in Angular 085 AiA Looking at Angular 2 with Ben Nadel
Adventures in Angular AiA 197: Bazel with Torgeir Helgevold
Adventures in Angular 077 AiA 2016 Year Predictions
Adventures in Angular 075 AiA Pragmatic Future-Minded Angular with Dylan Johnson
Adventures in Angular 074 AiA NativeScript with Burke Holland and TJ VanToll
Adventures in Angular 068 AiA Reactive Programming with Jeff Cross and Rob Wormald
Adventures in Angular 064 AiA Ionic with Matt Kremer and Mike Hartington
Adventures in Angular 061 AiA ng-book with Ari Lerner
Adventures in Angular 046 AiA Preparing for NG2 with Shai Reznik
Adventures in Angular 053 AiA Angular Apps That Scale with Ben Drucker
Adventures in Angular 043 AiA Falcor with Jafar Husain
Adventures in Angular 037 AiA Animations with Matias Niemelä
Adventures in Angular AiA 193: Angular Libraries with Juri Strumpflohner
Adventures in Angular 032 AiA Angular UI Router with Craig McKeachie
Adventures in Angular AiA 289: Put A Form Around It with Sani Yusuf
Adventures in Angular 035 AiA The Current State of Angular with Brad Green, Igor Minar, and Miško Hevery
Adventures in Angular 009 AiA ng 2.0 with Rob Eisenberg
Adventures in Angular 025 AiA Testing with Ward Bell
Adventures in Angular 022 AiA Form Validation with Kent C. Dodds
Adventures in Angular 003 AiA GDEs
Adventures in Angular 008 AiA Angular & WebGL with Sean Griffin
Adventures in Angular AiA 262: Firebase Features with David East
Adventures in Angular AiA 283: Web Components for Cross Framework Development with Nishu Goel
Adventures in Angular 114 AiA Life Lessons from Angular Air - Jeff Whelpley - Angular Remote Conf

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